Spy photos from the South Jersey shipyard show something big enough to be a canoe for a very small person being designed. I decided to build the entire hull in Fusion360 to re-teach myself how to use CAD. After some initial headaches, I'd say it turned out pretty good. The goal is to let this be a very slow/refined build, as everyone who's ever seen Dunkerque at a battle can attest that she has some serious teething issues due to how rapid the build was and my subsequent lack of shop time to refine her. I've promised myself I can't actually start cutting wood on this boat until a bunch of around the house stuff has been completed, so for now she's a hull in digitized form. If this goes together smoothly, I would not be opposed to sharing my final drawing here in the free ship plans section, but I won't upload until I know the boat actually assembles the way I want. Anyhow, that's it for now. Going to pick up the .pdf from staples today to make sure everything came out the way it was supposed to. From there, not sure if I'm going to pay for lasercutting or just scissors+glue+scroll saw it like I've done in the past. Vive la Marine Nationale. Honhonhon,
So you're going to do it! Lol CAD job looks really good. You might want to extend that rear subdeck forward to the next rib otherwise the only thing supporting the stern is the keel.
I thought that myself but I was worried that it might classify as an illegal stringer due to the upper subdeck's presence. There will be vertical pieces epoxied in place to connect the upper and lower subdecks fore and aft. If I could get a rules clarification to determine if extending that subdeck would be legal then it would be trivial to quick update that in the files. My initial thought is that where the upper/lower subdecks overlap they would need to be sanded down to 1/8" for a combined total of no more than 1/4" of subdeck. I could do that, but I think the vertical pieces will do the job fine once epoxied in.
I would extend the main deck's subdeck all the way back from the bow to the stern. The upper section is classified as superstructure (at least in IRCWCC) and doesn't count towards the 3/8" deck/subdeck combination.
IRC defines superstructure as everything above the weather deck. The weather deck being the highest deck with the largest caliber of gun. The 2nd main battery turret is located on "pont chateau" which is that upper subdeck, so technically that is legally part of the hull for penetration purposes? Unless I am mistaken in my rules interpretation. I am asking around for clarification now before proceeding any further in the ship's design, I can easily bring the rear subdeck forward to lock in to the next rib if my interpretation is incorrect.
You missed an important piece of that rule which is the that the weather deck contains the "forward most gun of the highest caliber installed on the ship". That's the "A" turret on the Ship, not the "B" turret which is on that second deck.
That's what I'm starting to realize. I had built my Dunkerque that way and always thought it wasn't quite legal, as typical fiberglass Dunkerque/Richelieu hulls have the upper deck incorporated into the hull vs sitting on top as superstructure. I will adjust my subdeck accordingly. I will bring the rear subdeck forward to rib 4 and then notch ribs 5-11 for a .25" strip to fit in as the "top" of the penetrable area along that area of the hull.
Here is the updated 1.1 version of Jean Bart's hull. I am waiting on an "official" interpretation on the weather deck rule before anything else happens. Here you can see the extended rear subdeck and I also made a template for the deck and deck hatches.
I am planning on it, my biggest concern is the design is very fluid right now as I am making small and large changes. Once I get the first hull at least dry-fit together and see what changes/clarifications need to be made, I would gladly share the .pdf drawing for scratchbuilders.
The center raised section should be solid, since it is superstructure. Run the for and aft deck 3/8 inch structure the full length, instead of having a break in them. Then it can be easily filled with solid material. Here is a crude addition to your drawing showing the area blacked in that should be hard area. The ship with the best hard area with the same type center section area is the Mogami class Jap Heavy cruiser. My Kumano gets absolutely pounded on, yet takes little damage at times, and no one understands why it does not sink. I let them shoot at me all day, when they are hitting the hard area. Why give your ship additional area for them to score damage points?
My concern is with the exact way the rules are written. The upper deck is technically the highest deck with the gun of the largest caliber mounted. Strike Models sells their Richelieu hulls with that area being penetrable. If the general consensus is that entire area is correct being hard area, then it is easy enough for me to notch every rib for a 1/4 x 1/8 basswood strip to link the front/rear subdecks together.
Looking at 14.a in the rules, and the picture below it showing the definition, looks like a QE maybe, it includes the gun (A) mounted on that deck, not the raised gun (b) sitting on the deck above behind it. In the case of this ship both turrets are on the weather deck, and the center section is superstructure, which is above the weather-deck. it should be hard. My ship was questioned a few times when the drop test was performed, but all I had to do was quote the weatherdeck rule, and I never had a issue after that. But many would still shoot at that area, lol. But if you want to build it that way, that's OK also. Just that much easier to score hits on the ship is all. And it is a great drawing by the way, wish I had the skill to do the same. You just saw my skill adding the hard area in black, lol, a mess.
Ugh, Rodney?? Once the hull plans are done I invite others to build Jean Barts and continue the french revolution that's happening with the North East IRC guys. I would love to see my hull out and about, and as far as I know no one makes a bulged Richelieu hull commercially. That seems to be the general consensus then, that the upper deck area is superstructure and can remain impenetrable. I will notch all of the ribs 10 through 4 for a basswood stringer to designate the upper limit of the penetrable area and then during construction run basswood sheet in that area and glass over it for durability. I guess I was questioning it so much because of that picture showing the stepped deck in the rear, which made me believe that the superfiring turret was on a "stepped deck" just one that stepped upwards.... Thanks @djranier for the clarification.
Much better ship than the Nelson. A Nelson was my first ship. Slab sides, 26 second speed, the bows just got shot to pieces by the 24 sec boats, and I could seldom get a shot in, they just ran away. I sold it to Mikey to use up in Treaty, Mikey said that it would do well under the Treaty rule set. My personnel view is the SD, QE, and Nelson should be raised to 24 sec, only then will the Allies start winning a few.
So I just had another chime in regarding the Jean Bart "to impenetrable or not to impenetrable, that is the question" debate. My initial belief was that the upper deck area (Pont Chateau, doesn't that just scream french? Chateau? Honhonhon) was considered hull. Specifically because the upper deck area otherwise doesn't classify as superstructure, because it is not inset from the hull at all. Using the picture from the rules as an example, The top-down picture is the important part here. See the superfiring forward turret doesn't create a new weather deck, because the structure behind it is inset from the hull and considered superstructure. Look at the stern of the ship and imagine that is the bow. The lower turret would be Jean Bart's A turret, the upper turret would be Jean Bart's B turret. Because the deck B turret sits on comes out to the edge of the hull and is otherwise flush with the hull, my interpretation is that the upper deck area is still considered penetrable hull area and is *not* impenetrable superstructure. It is in essence a deck step, just an upwards step. To that end, I will build Jean Bart to the more restrictive interpretation of the rules. Let's be honest. That section of hull is something like 3 or 4" above the waterline. If I am taking water from holes that high up, I'm legally decks awash anyway.
The reason you make it hard is to follow the rules, you don't have to, but its clear in the rules. Does not matter if that ship the B turret is set back. The weatherdeck, is the same thing as the forecastle deck, anything above it is considered to be superstructure by the rules. If Marty did not make it hard, that was his choice, wrong, but his choice. You still allow additional damage to your ship, which is point's scored against it. Marty has been testing my boat for the past 7 or 8 years, and that area has always been hard, he has never questioned it.
