Ok, i will pretend that my preference for Allied ships doesn't exist for now. Which ship is better for a rookie? Thing to be considered may include, but aren't limited to as follows: speed, turning radius, gun set ups, ease of build, and battling style. I want to find a general consensus, but a fight to the death...i mean, conclusion is going to be well received. Other ships are welcome, but they'd better be readily available, which means most likely battlers connection, and cheap-ish. Thanks for any and all help, as it will, hopefully, get me on board with a good rookie ship.
The VDT is a better ship than the Andrea Doria, at least in the small gun world. That said for a beginner they are both good choices. Any advantages that one might have over the other aren't nearly as noticeable as the skill of the rookie who built it/battles it. That factor, especially at the early stages of being part of the hobby, out weigh the differences in those two boats. Now once you get more experienced building and battling that changes and boat selection makes more of a difference. The Andrea Doria is almost 4" longer and just a tad wider. They both have two rudders however the VDT's are tandem while the Andrea Doria's are inline. Also the AD only has 2 prop shafts so you don't have the opportunity to put drag disks on the outer shafts. Combine those factors and the VDT will out turn the Andrea Doria. They are the same speed so that is not really a factor when comparing the two. The Andrea Doria is longer, wider, and heavier. Never having built an Andrea Doria I can't say for sure but I believe that it would be an easier build. It has a simpler hull shape and the 6 or so extra pounds let you build heavier but you shouldn't have a problem with that. I think the real advantage in the extra weight is that it will allow you to use more/heavier batteries. Bigger batteries translate to more time on the water and less worry about the state of your batteries. I would use SLA batteries in an Andrea Doria which are a lot more common and much cheaper than the NiMH batteries I use in my VDTs. You can use SLA batteries in a VDT you cant have as much juice if you do that, but many people have done it and been successful with it, I personally think having the extra juice is worthwhile. For a rookie, using NiMH over SLA probably isn't the way to go, you can always switch later if you really really want to but its rather expensive and that money is better spent other places on a rookie boat. Casemates, VDT has them, lots of them, and the Andrea Doria doesn't. That gives you a significant amount of extra solid area. The Andrea Doria has nice billboard like sides. On a VDT there is a section about a foot long that is worth shooting at aft of that area a lot of the above area is nice and solid. The VDT sits pretty low in the water, less reserve buoyancy but also slips under enemy sidemounts easier so the rounds are bouncing off your deck, or sterns are going over you. In all reality as a rookie you'll probably be patching a fair amount either way. Note: Casemates are also one of those "grey" areas in the rules, this can cause some people to get their feathers ruffled if you don't build the boat how they think it should be built, fair warning. Also there were 4 VDTs at MWCI NATS this year, no two had the casemates cut out the same as each builder cut them out as they understand/interpret the rules. Heck even my two VDTs don't have the same cutouts for the casemates. My advice, just read the rules and do your best to follow them if you build a ship with casemates. Gun Position, they each have 4 turrets. The Andrea Doria's are inline and the VDTs are offset. This gives the Andrea Doria a little more freedom in which directions you can point the guns. Also the Andrea Doria is a little different than most ships in that it has both dual and triple turrets. Also the Andrea Doria gets another half unit which means it can have a 75 round haymaker(stern sidemount) which is pretty cool. Basically the standard setups for either would be a stern sidemount and dual stern guns, or a stern and a bow sidemount and a single stern gun. That decision would also play into how you fight the ship as a both with two sidemounts would have more of a hug and slug style, however I consider them both hug and slug type ships, hence why I'm a fan of the bow and stern sidemounts with a single stern gun. The raised turrets of the Andrea Doria would let you get max down angle on your sidemounts easier, if you want that. I haven't run into a problem with angles my VDT sidemounts are at but I figured it was worth mentioning. In a fight to the death, with two equally built ships and two equally skilled captains I would put my money on the VDT. This is based on the VDTs better turning ability and it having less target area than the Andrea Doria. For a rookie the Andrea Doria is probably easier to build since it has more internal space (VDTs are small on the inside) and a higher weight limit. It also depends on how long you're going to be battling it. If you think you'll move up to a bigger battleship in a year or two you might not get to the point with it where the differences will matter much. If you are going to keep it and battle it for a long time I would say the VDT is better suited for that. There are also plenty of other factors to be considered, some people don't like the looks of some boats so maybe you want one over the other cause it looks better. Or you don't want an Italian or German boat or whatever reason. Italians are also sometimes allowed to switch sides, its more accepted some places/times than others, so maybe that is a good reason to build the Andrea Doria. Or maybe you've realized that the Axis really do have more fun and nothing but pure German engineering will do for you. There are a thousand reason to choose one boat over the other. Boats make a difference but captain skill makes a much much larger difference. Also most rookie boats aren't so good, you don't know what you're doing and don't have enough experience. Just like most things in life your first try at something it isn't often the best, so don't worry about it to much. Bottom Line: For a rookie I would rather you build a boat and get it out on the water and start learning how to battle, what boat you build is much less important.
Nothing really to add, think Snipe covered it all. Something you might be interested in checking out since you like Allied ships would be the British Invincible or Indefatigable class battlecruisers. They are basically Allied VDTs with more target area. There are likely some old Swampworks Invincible hulls sitting around in people's garages they might be interested in selling. Might be worth your time asking about on the email list. Swampy also occasionally does a run of hulls, so you could get one if he does a run and you put an order in. The Indefatigable hulls are made by Ralph Coles up in Canada. For a rookie builder, I'd say they are probably the better ship simply because they are a little bit bigger and have more room to work. They have slightly more target area and are a few inches longer, but I doubt the difference would make a noticeable impact on performance. They're probably harder to come by simply because of the shipping regulations from Canada these days so you would probably need to try and acquire one that's already in the US. The easiest way to do so would be to ask on the email lists if anyone has a hull they'd be willing to sell you. You can fit SLAs in an Invincible, but it's a tight fit. I'm currently running a 6v 12ah SLA in mine, built on a Swampworks hull. I'm seriously considering changing the ship to NiMH type batteries (as SnipeHunter runs in his VDT, and for the same reasons). While my SLA fits in there and provides plenty of juice for a battle, it's a pain in the kiester to get it in and out. The SLA is a better fitting battery in the Indefatigable because you have a little more size to work with. Both have the same basic weapons layouts and rudder advantages of the VDT. Just throwing out some other ideas for you since you said you prefer Allied.
wow Snipe, that was comprehensive. and thanks Crzy. i dont have time right now, but ill come back after school , and give a good post to it. Thanks for the great info though
yea, right now its between those 2 ships EDIT: Also looking at the Iron Duke, which Rick from BC said will be coming out later this year
The Doria does not have 2 shafts in its original, as built configuration. The ships' as first built had 4 shafts.
True. However if you build that version you lose 2 seconds on speed. You'll turn better cause you'll be shorter and have more thrust(?maybe?). You also lose a few pounds to play with. If you want a 28 sec ship I wouldn't recommend an Andrea Doria. Also the Battlers Connection hull is of the rebuilt version so you would have to modify(shorten) the hull to turn it into the as-built version, not something I would suggest for a rookie build.
Ok, im considering this, and as i see it, they are evenly matched. The Doria has ease of build, more gun placement choices, and larger. The VDT has better turning, less target area and is considered the better ship. So, if its an even match (cost wise is also only a few $ off), i think ill go with the Andrea Doria.
