Continuing my point. With S&G Spee has 12 8.2" guns on the broadside and with Canopus Craddock has 4x12 and 4x9.2. With S&G being elite ships of the Kaiser's navy. Coronel looks like a slaughter either way. Of course if the Brits stick together Spee can avoid the fight as Canopus was not good for more than 12 to 15 (I have read different accounts) knots.
Not to mention the machinery of Canopus was in sorry shape and prone to break down IIRC... IMO, Canopus was no help. 4 old, slow firing 12" guns manned by green sailors would help little vs. elite German gunners. Should Von Spee meet Craddock's ships plus the Canopus, the outcome is the same, he only expends more ammo. Despite being a battleship, the Canopus was just like the rest of Craddock's ships. Saved from the breakers and filled with green crews. In addition, Canopus only had a 6" belt of KC armor, which the German 8.2" guns could probably pierce at closer ranges.
Designed speed of Canopus was 18.5kts from all the reference books I have. What designed speeds are and what they do is another matter. If the hull has not been scraped of barnicales and sea growth in a long time it will slow a vessel down a few knots. Engine over haul is another. Boiler over haul another. Out of pitch propellers. The list can go on.
One of the mistakes (I say one, but there were several others of course) that was made by Cradock was that he continued to press his attack despite his ships being silhouetted with the setting sun. Spee held the range open long enough for the sun to sink out of the eyes of his gun crews before closing with Cradock. As night fell Monmouth and Good Hope were far easier targets than Scharnhorst or Gneisenau. It didn't help that Good Hope was already ablaze, followed shortly by Monmouth. Despite his sound deafeat, I'd say Cradock wasn't stupid, but rather he was presented with a terrible tactical situation and orders that didn't take into account the disparity in combat power between his cruisers and the East Asia squadron's.
Plus with the sea states being what they were the 6" guns on Craddock's ships were mostly unusable. His best bet would have been to shadow Spee until reinforcements could arrive. Serious reinforcements.
Can you find reload times on those guns? If the 12 inchers can get a good ROF, it increases the chances of Canopus getting lucky, and the larger shells would probably make the difference. If Spee's smaller, more modern guns are machine guns next to Canopus' slow black powder musket, Canopus will be much easier to overwhelm.
According to the Navweaps site Canopus was fitted with 12" 35cal Mk. VII guns that had a rate of fire of .75 rnds per minute. The guns had a maximum elevation of 13.5 degrees giving a range of 14,860 yards. S&G had 21cm SLK40 with a rate of fire of 4-5 rnds per minute. Range for the casemate guns (limited by the elevation of 16 degrees) was 13,560 yards. The turret mounted guns could fire out to 17,830 yards. I am guessing that either side armor could be defeated by the other's guns at 10,000 yards. Canopus had 6" KNC but I am not sure what S&G had. Canopus' guns could penetrate 8" of KNC at 10,000 yards.
I was reading "Spee's Raider's" last night and it stated that the Chief of Engineering on Canopus was barking mad and reported to the Captain that she was only capable of 12 knots. The assistant engineer reports that the ship could do 17. Pretty respectable for machinery of that age.
But by the time of the Falklands battle, She had been run agroud on a mud flat to serve as a "floating" battery... because of unreliable machinery.
Curious? What was the visibility at that battle? When did they open fire. This is what will determine penetration ranges and see if the Canopus could have made any difference.
I am not really sure. I will have to look into that. I know the seas were heavy and it was at twilight. Damn more reading naval history books.[]
I just read in a book Naval Battles of the First World War by Geoffery Bennett that the German ships opened fire at 12,300 yards. 2,300 yards of the 10,000 that was talked about earlier. It also said that all the German 8.2s were in range and only the British 9.2s were in range. Wow! Conopus where are you? 300 miles away escorting some colliers. The range got down to 5,500 yards according to this book. At that range just about all armour could be penetrated. This I will naval game in the future at a gaming convention.
Continuing my point. (Anachronus)?? Was this topic moved over here from somewhere else? I couldn't find it anywhere else. Anyhow. There was a lot more to this than numbers and tactics. The British higher-ups were too eager, and willing to criticise the commanders at sea in the event of anything but a victory. I read somewhere that Craddock had written a letter to his wife informing her that that there had been another commander in a similar situation to his during the Goeben affair (I think), that had not engaged due to the tactical situation. He felt that his entire squadron would be destroyed without achieving any notable success, and his reputation was ruined by the admiralty. Anyhow. Craddock wrote to his wife that if he was presented with a chance to accept battle with the enemy even with little or no chance of victory, he would indeed follow orders and engage. He had decided to leave the old Canopus behind so that his squadron's speed was not hampered by her slower speed, which increased his chances of actually finding the enemy. When he found the enemy, he engaged in a battle that he had little hopes of winning, and his squadron was destroyed. If I remember correctly.. The British admiralty criticised his tactics to the point of detroying his reputation. But perhaps for doing exactly what they criticised the other commander for not doing.. Mikey
It had started in the "Sides in a WW1 based club" thread. I think Craddock had no hopes of victory, he knew that and decided to engage in hopes of at least damaging one of Spee's ships. Which was not to be.
Do you think it is worse to be firing into the sunset, or to be silhouetted by the sunset? I played a hypothetical Battle of the Yellow Sea last night (where Togo found out the Ruskies were leaving port a bit late and had to chase them around Korea halfway to Vadivostok). I crossed the enemy T but was firing into the sunset, where the enemy was silhouetted. I sank four battleships, two armored cruisers, two protected cruisers, and five or six destroyers in exchange for six battleships, three armored cruisers, three protected cruisers, and six destroyers, and I'd like to know if it was my ships being blinded by the sun or the AI's extra accuracy that is supposed to make up for it's atrocious tactics.
Distant Guns: The Russo-Japanese War, by Storm Eagle Studios. This keeps me occupied until the sequel, Jutland, comes out. http://www.stormeaglestudios.com/public/home.html
