Characteristics of a Good Convoy Ship

There was another thread on "the best convoy ship" that lasted some 10 pages but never really reached a conclusion. I have a similar question and will try to focus the discussion on more objective criteria.
I'd like to get a ship primarily to be sailed for show, i.e. sailed around swimming pools or small ponds to display r/c boats. However, its secondary purpose would be for use as a convoy ship in MWC battles. I've been researching possible ships that would fit my requirements for several months now--including ease of transport, maneuverabilty in small areas, recognizability to a general audience, historical interest, availability of fiberglass hull, etc.
The feedback I'm interested in here is "what are the characteristics of a good convoy ship?"
Is is better to go big or small, large freeboard vs. small, single or dual props and rudders? Are there other features you find important to an effective and enjoyable convoy vessel?

 

I don't think I read the other thread you mentioned. But off the top of my head, I would suggest a smalllish aircraft-carrier.
Perhaps a light-carrier built on a cruiser hull like an Independence (Brooklyn cruiser hull), or an escort-carrier.
I think there are liberty-ship hulls available, and Battler's Connection has a German raider hull.
Mikey

 

If you are looking for a ship that is showy and will attract attention, I think a passenger liner or a aircraft carrier would attact many people. One downside is that many of these ships are rather large and would be difficult for some battlers to lift and transport due to the size. As froggyfrenchman mentioned, a smaller carrier, such as a CVL or CVE, would be great and easier for some people. One carrier I would like to see people build is the Casablanca class CVE, which is special to me since my great-grandfather was a shipyard worker at the Kaiser shipyards where the Casablanca class ships were built. But at the moment there are no hulls of them in production and plans aren't easy to find either. If you have more room, a ocean liner would be very showy, especially the large and famous ones such as the Mauretania/Lusitania, Imperator, Titanic, Normandie, etc. One liner that would work well for those who want a smaller ship woould be the German liner SS Kronprinzessin Cecilie. She is only about 58" long in 1:144, and has 4 stacks which seems to draw attention. She was used as a trooptransport by the Americans during WW1 so she could serve as either Axis or Allied, depending on your preference. The only drawback is that as far as I know no plans are avilable or her, so they would have to be drawn or CAD modeled (there's anothe rproject for you, Nick )

 

I have done a lot of research on this ship, and I have a lot of sites bookmarked that have pictures of her, both from her original role as the SS K C and as her later role as USS Mount Vernon. Some of these show the stern, there is only one that shows the stern head on, its a colorized version and no that great, but there are a number of other shots that show the stern well enough. If you like I can post the links on here.

 

A good convoy ship works all the time. You only get a couple times to use them each year. If you start a run and toss a prop, lose radio control or have some other gost pop up you will sink and the attempted run was a waist. You also need to have a perfect seal on the hull skin. NO water should leak. Might as well poke 25 belows in it to start the run if you have a bad seal.
For types the small ones like the LST don't get shot a lot. They are really hard to hit, move really well, but are not worth a ton of points for their completed run or to sink them.
The medium sized ships, like the Liberty ship are worth a lot more run points. A little easier to hit, still turn pretty good.
The large ships like Altmark or CVLs are in my mind the best ones. A Princeton CVL can easily be made with a 2nd SS and run as a cruiser when not being used for campains.
The extra large ships like Titanic are worth a ton of sink points and a lot of run points. They atract the attention of every ship on the water. Just keeping them sheeted is a pain. Not the best ship to have out there.
Go for a medium or large Altmark, Victory or CVL. But saying this I have plans for the USS Midway, someday I'll bring her to NATS. But I might fight Axis that year just so I can shoot the BFT (Big Floating Target).

 

Okay, where do you sugest I start the new thread? The plans section?

 

I have seen ocean liners, medium sized transports, small transports, and tiny transports in action. I prefer small transports in the 20-36" range. Ocean liners, in addition to being large, heavy, and more difficult to move around, have very high freeboard that makes them very easy to hit. The Normandie passenger liner that has fought in the WWCC used it's roughly 30kt speed to escape from slower battleships, but faster battleships could still keep up and cruisers could easily catch it. The high freeboard meant that even slow battleships could wait near a convoy buoy and take long range shots with a reasonable chance of scoring a hole. Once people figured these aspects out, it got creamed and never fought again because the owner didn't want to deal with all that patching for an unarmed ship (he doesn't mind patching his Iowa, its more fun to earn holes with her). I do not like liners mostly because they are difficult to handle and require lots of patching and maintenance. Aircraft carriers are armed warships in the WWCC, but I would expect them to perform similar to liners when used as transports.

Medium sized transports suffer from a similar issue: they are not maneuverable enough to dodge attacks, not fast enough to outrun even slow attackers, and most have high freeboard that makes them an easy target at range. Oilers like the Cimarron are the exception to the last issue: they have very low freeboard that makes it difficult to hit. Since they are still somewhat ungainly an attacker can still get in and score hits, it just takes longer.

Tiny transports are very small, with generally low freeboard, shallow draft, and excellent maneuverability, making them very difficult to hit. They are light and easy to handle: you can launch them with one hand while holding your radio in the other hand. It doesn't take much to repair them since they take so little balsa to skin and are so small that it doesn't take much damage to sink them. The downsides are that it is difficult to build them because they are so small and they can't handle heavy seas due to their low freeboard.

Small transports, such as Mehoshi maru and the three island tramps Kotori and I built are a good compromise between maneuverability of the tiny transports and ease of construction of larger transports. They still have small target area and good maneuverability of the tiny transports: not as good, but still good enough to evade most attackers. The extra size makes it easier to build by giving you more weight and room to work with. Cargo ships and oilers around 2-3' are, in my opinion, best. Mehoshi maru is at the large end, my transport is on the small end.

Some light cruisers, such as Abdiel and Kitakami, were converted for transporting military supplies. If these ships are legal transports in your club, their speed is sufficient to help protect them, and they don't have the large freeboard of liners, so they can simply keep their distance and be relatively safe. Kitakami still carried some torpedoes when she was converted, so she can perform both the role of fast transport and torpedo cruiser under the rules for arming transports in the WWCC. Some older destroyers were converted to be fast transports and APDs, although at around 25kts they still get the minimum speed. I saw one at the maneuvering event on Sunday. These lack the beam of small transports, so I classify them as tiny transports. Hard to hit, easy to handle and maintain, but also hard to build.

This applies mostly to big gun, but I'm sure there is some similarity to fast gun.

 

And here I was afraid my question wouldn't get any replies! You've all covered my requirements pretty well:

1) Ship small enough to be easily transported but with adequate size to accommodate the necessary r/c gear when built in 1/144 scale (model probably somewhere between 24 and 54 inches in length).
2) Ship maneuverable enough to operate in a typical swimming pool.
3) Ship attractive enough or famous enough to be of interest to the general public (i.e. "not just another Liberty ship").
4) Ship that would be an average or better performer in MWC convoy battle scenarios.
5) Ship for which hull plans are available.
6) Preferably a hull that is already available in fiberglass (not required but nice to have).
7) Preferably a ship that could be sailed for either Allied or Axis (not required but nice to have).

As several have mentioned, ocean liners dominate my list of options so far as they are more eye-catching. The downsides of these ships have also been covered--namely lots of area to patch and lack of maneuverability.

These are a few of the options I've been exploring:

SS America (aka USS West Point) -- a popular and successful American liner used as a troopship in WW2. Plans are available through Taubman but the model would be over 60 inches long.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SS_America_(1940)

SS President Coolidge -- an ill-fated American liner sunk as a troopship during WW2 to become one of the most popular diving sites in the world. This one is right around my max size limit and Taubman offers plans.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SS_President_Coolidge

SS President Warfield (aka "The Exodus") -- a small coastal steamer used as a troopship by the US and UK in WW2 that later played an important role in the creation of Israel. It's biggest attraction is small size (27 inches long) but it's single rudder could make maneuverability difficult. I've been unable to find plans.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exodus_(ship)

Monte Rosa (aka Empire Windrush) -- German liner used as a troopship in WW2 and captured by the UK. Model is of moderate size (42 inches long) and a fiberglass hull is sold by Dreadnought Hulls.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empire_Windrush

USS Cyclops -- a collier that vanished in WW1 in one of the greatest mysteries in US Navy history. Model would be 45 inches long and Taubman has plans.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Cyclops_(AC-4)

Barbarossa class -- group of 10 German liners used for military purposes by Germany, the US, Italy, and Brazil during WW1. The ships were launched between 1896 and 1901 and I suppose are technically not allowed under MWC rules. Models would be about 43 inches long but I haven't found plans.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbar...cean_liner

If I can find or create plans, I think the President Warfield is my top choice at the moment. If I decide to go the "easy route," then Monte Rosa is probably the best of these options.

 

President Coolidge would be interesting, I also like the idea of building the Cyclopes or a coastal passenger liner. There are many intersting pacific coast liners that would make great models, but I haven't been able to find plans for a single one of them. I guess once my skills improve I'll have to draw them myself. I suggest you look into some of these liners, none of them are over 35" and they all have interesting histories.
2 other famous liners that would be under 50" are the RMS Empress of Ireland and DKM Steuben, both of which were sunk with heavy loss of life. But, as with all the Pacific Coast liners, there are no plans avaiblable.

 

I gotta say the Independance class, with a few Wildcats or Corsairs or TBDs would look down-right awesome.

 

You might also want to look at doing an escort carrier. One of the guys up in Canada makes a T2 tanker hull, which is used for the Santee and Commencement Bay class CVEs. The T2 hull is also used for many of the fleet oilers such as USS Neosho (present at Pearl Harbor, sunk at Coral Sea). They're under 600 ft long, and should have a ton of hull volume for soaking up damage.

Carriers also catch the eye, especially if you park a few Wildcats or Avengers on their decks.

 

I found a site that has a lot of plans, I don't know if they have the Warfeild but you could ask. They have several of the pacific coast liners which are uncommon ships so maybe they'd have the ones you want. You have to pay a bit to get them to look through the library though.
The Mariners' Museum: Newport News, Virginia
When you click on the link, it will take you to a list of a few of the plans they have. Go over to the left side, and select "plans and drawings", when you get to that page, scroll down to the bottom where it alks about find a certain pland and getting a copy of it.

 

Thanks for the insight on the SS Normandie passenger liner.
I have been working with her hull lines.
I was thinking of doing her as US Troop ship the USS Lafayette. (That way I could arm her.)

But now. I think that I will put those plans on the back burner.

 

Thanks for the tip on the Mariner's Museum, CaptainCook. I found a static model builder who had pictures of beautiful models of the America and President Coolidge on Flickr who recommended that museum as a resource, but I think he meant actually visiting the place. It would be quite a trek for me, but I didn't realize they offered plans through their site. I don't see the President Warfield in their list, but the "research service" might be worthwhile. The shipyard that built Warfield closed after WW2 but it was pretty well known and built several historic ships, so I'm hoping its records survive somewhere.

What are some of the Pacific Coast liners you recommend? I'm not too familiar with them and don't know which names to look for.

 

I did a little research on Commencement Bay, and it does look like a nice option to consider. However, it appears to have been built on a T3 tanker hull rather than a T2. It looks like the T3 hull was some 25 to 50 feet longer and 7 feet wider than the T2 or T2-SE. Are they still close enough in 1/144 scale to be considered the same hull?

 

Wow, you're right. I'm not sure how I missed that over the years. I'd have bet a paycheck and lost it was a t2 tanker. Since it appears that it's the T3 that was used for fleet oilers etc, perhaps it's the T3 hull that is made in canada.