Are any clubs seeing growth in their numbers? If so, what are you doing to get attention for your clubs? I saw a post from awhile ago about putting posts on Craigslist. Thought that was a great idea.
We picked up another guy this week; so three new guys in the last 8mo or so. Not great growth, but we haven’t been doing any advertising either.
Are you guys doing anything to help keep their excitement up? We have loaner boats new folks can use. Are you guys doing anything different?
Have you heard of any rumblings of why that might be? Too expensive, too much time, no full kits available? My current working theory, which might be very wrong, is that to my knowledge, there are no full kits available anymore. I've only seen hull and deck kits. When I got back into the hobby back in 2010 I bought a Bismarck kit from Strike Models and it had everything. While I wasn't working, I think I finished that kit and was on the water in about a month or so.
Hobby is expensive, it requires a number of technical skills, it requires travel, its a huge time commitment. Even captains who are hooked can't be traveling 3+ hours to battle every month. IRCWCC to me is a 4-5~ time a year kind of hobby, not counting building hangouts and etc. I offer complete ship kits at barely above my cost to make them. People have been talking about how the hobby can't retain new people for as long as the hobby has been around. No easy to assemble kits, no ready to run boats, etc. It's time and distance. When there are a grand total of 120~ model warship combat captains spread across IRCWCC (the dominant format) and the 2-3 sub-format clubs, and we are dispersed across all of North America, you just have a density problem. If a rookie drives 3 hours to an event and drives a loaner boat (which almost all of us offer to potentials), that's a good start. If they then drive the 2-3 hours to a nearby veteran to get build help two or three times a year, that's amazing. When they then graduate to their own fully-functioning captain (attending events without their founding veteran) that is the most rare. A lot of people get stuck in the local club not-quite-fully-functioning captain status, and when that ringleader burns out or takes a break the whole hobby loses 4-8 captains. In RC car world, you can buy a car and drive it around as a for-fun self-satisfaction hobby. You can tinker with it. You can upgrade it. That is your extent of involvement. Done. The next step up is maybe joining a local race track, racing in a league, etc. The last step is the A+ serious level who will travel across the state/country to attend scale events, races, etc. Our hobby doesnt really exist on the first two levels due to the density problem.
Yea that's about what happens up here. However, in the Northwest we don't have an driving distance issue as much as in other states. If a captains drives 3 hours he is on the other side of Washington St or in Oregon. Do you have a list or website for your kits?
My advice for anyone worried about population/hobby growth/etc, is to build an IRCWCC boat and come to IRCWCC Nationals. Yeah, you may be a big gun guy (@Kotori87 cough cough) but we're the largest club with the most reach and staying power. If you come to our big yearly event, it helps establish these little Beacons of Minas Tirith across the country for the hobby as a whole. It helps contribute to the density problem. Build your ships to be multi-format compatible, change your clubs rules to be more accepting of IRCWCC-built ships. Yeah, sure, our acceleration and props and such might not be your thing but you can swap those out easily enough (looking at the treaty guys, whose boats are very similar to ours). Hull penetrability and construction is so drastically different in some clubs that you'd have to build a whole new boat from scratch just to participate in the largest model warship combat club/format in the world. If hull construction was the same at least, you could pull out the fancy rotates and rip off the thick balsa and "dumb down" to IRCWCC spec and you'd be able to play. We don't have the density to support the single largest format of Model Warship Combat, let alone half a dozen formats that are completely incompatible. That's my rant. I'm not trying to trash talk big gun or treaty or anything, I'm just pointing out the issues from the perspective of a veteran model warship captain who has raised a few successful rookies. If you look in the 3d design forum here on RCWC you'll see my thread about my hulls. I am working on a legitimate product listing. I am adding new hulls and revising existing hulls on an almost constant basis. My hulls are IRCWCC, because its the largest/most prevalent format.
Have had lots of interest out here but only 1 has been bitten. Between sickness and deaths it's been hard to not only keep motivated but to push for growth and activity. Lost our pond because the owner developed cancer and sold the property. Still trying to find one close by/within reasonable driving distance (i.e. less than 5 hours) The hobby was much more expensive when I got in (1982) and far less reliable ships. I think the main issue now is trying to convince someone to come out of their air conditioned room playing World of Warships and spend money, learn, bleed then drive 100+miles to an event. In 82 after the Nats in Amarillo, Stan Watkins told me during a discussion about Steve Millholand starting Swampworks, "If people want to get into the hobby, they will learn how to use tools, learn how ships go together and be will to pay the price to get involved." That was 41 years ago. Things are very different now. I believe printing is the new method to attract people....just my opinion
While the printed hulls and such I'm offering will hopefully make it easier to have an actually functional/legal boat sooner for a rookie, I believe your quote is 100% still correct today. Any successful rookie that IRC has gotten in the last 6~ years I've been the most active would fit that quote. Also, GLAS (IRCWCC) is 2.5 hours away from you in Ionia, MI and they battle almost every month.
I certainly appreciate a good rant. However, we are IRCWCC up here in the Seattle area. Perhaps that is part of the problem at least for us Northwesternites. Even our own hobby doesn't know about us here in the Northwest. The famous Kotori87 twins are up here as well and are enjoying their knowledge and company.
I'll check out your thread but I think that $200 is an excellent price point for a kit that includes what you have described. Hell that is cheaper than a used boat I am looking at buying and building up as a loaner ship. When you have it ready. I would love a list of kits that you offer. That would be another talking point to help get some new folks up here going.
[QUOTE="Boatmeister, post: 542664, member: 57" This is very true with me I learned how to use lots of tools I didn’t know how to use and definitely didn’t have on hand. I didn’t have a lot of storage so I bought a small enclosed trailer and built shelves to store the boat and tools that I have. I have spent a lot of money to get into this hobby and to have spares of parts and to make sure I can help others if needed. As a pretty new captain I feel like people have to have a decent support group now to get into it I had a great group about two hours from me that helped me really get started. Also going to battles and battling first with a loaner before committing is something I did but I feel like a lot of new people need to do it too. I feel like nowadays everyone expects everything to work once it is thrown together with no issues is a problem too. I have seen this in the vintage racing group I am in most of the older guys (my dad included) get their kids into it to help the hobby survive we barely get any new people because of the travel and the expenses and how hard it is to find a car. "If people want to get into the hobby, they will learn how to use tools, learn how ships go together and be will to pay the price to get involved." [/QUOTE]
We can't do much about living distance. But if there was an inexpensive kit, say under $500, for a ship that was simple to put together and simple to maintain, we could see more boats on the water. At some point, ponds would be full of these "rookie kits" but at that point I would say that is a good problem. The kit should be 3D printed and the builder would need the minimal number of tools to build.
It is about what's available locally and how hard is the barrier for entry. No one wants to get into a hobby where before they even start... they have to build something from scratch, then drive 3-4 hours to use it. Dallas is big & everyone loves guns here. We have a local club and a pond in the dead-center of the metroplex. I can drum up interest here much easier than anywhere else I've lived. My local facebook video posts got a lot of responses. However, we have no good answer to "where do I buy one?". Big Gun has zero answers to that question, especially for weapons. Hell, I don't know where to buy Indiana guns anymore. But that doesn't really matter, because as soon as they hear they need to turn more than a screwdriver, the conversation is over. My avatar is the Surcouf, because that's the ship I want to finish and fight with. However, I gave it up (for now) because I realized that my local club will not survive unless we get new members. So what's the point in building something if I'm the only one on the pond. Deutschland was my club's idea for answering the question "where do I buy one". She's smaller, she's cheaper, and she answer the question about weapons because she comes with them. To build her, I need a screwdriver, pliers, Dremel, and acetone/paintbrush. She's also quick and repeatable to assemble. Everything has a place and there is nothing fidgety about her. My vision is to be able to do build sessions where new members can build a Deutschland turn key in a single session (with help). ...and I agree with Will about a Big Gun ship should be dual format. All cannons are attached to Deutschland deck; so I can swap cannon caliber and fight whatever format she wants. Which is also why I've invested in 7/32" and BB calibers. -- My biggest regret so far is she isn't ready for NATS '23. I so badly wanted to show up with a dual format ship & pay my dues on the spot; but with a week left it's just not going to happen. _
Sounds like you're already ahead on this issue. I'll definitely be watch your journey with process and see how it works out for you.
If my 3d printed hulls were allowed in Big Gun/Treaty/Etc with their optimized for IRCWCC prop layout/rudder layout/ribs/impenetrable/etc, you could use them in a multi-format role by swapping the guns/props/rudders/pump to a more compatible size/shape/etc. But to me its not worth the effort to make 3-4 different variants of the same plastic kit hull to maybe sell 1 of the alternate format kits. I dont even forsee myself selling many of the IRCWCC kits...and thats the big club. Thats why I've started to run with a "If you want X boat (that I dont already offer, meaning I need to design it for you), you need to get a friend and commit to buy 2 hulls" kinda process.
As a newbie to this (but not RC in general), the biggest drawback is definitely the complete lack of a "Ready-To-Fight" kit. The other drawback, for me are certain scale issues. I have an extensive background in scale modelling. I appreciate scale accuracy, I love it. Things like prop-drag discs and fish rudders (though effective) are an absolute No-Go. I want to run my ship(s) at scale speeds. Not being able to arm all the primary armament is still another. I know the drag discs are for the sake of simplicity. I greatly dislike the look/lack of scale accuracy. I know the fish rudders are for better maneuverability/handling. I greatly dislike the look/lack of scale accuracy. **I know the size of the pond/lake also factors into this**. It also levels the playing field, I get it. Still don't like it. I know that arming the ships is the biggest issue, the gun units are NOT small and easy to fit anywhere. -I'd even be happier with a "main/primary" armament smaller than .177/4.5mm bbs for the sake of scale and more firing guns. Not all ships are equal, and therefore the captains must use their ships accordingly. If I were to have a hi-speed DD (like the 40kt Shimakaze or even a 39kt Minekaze Class) I want to be able run-down and do a "hi-speed pass" on a CL or BB...and speed away. But if I have a BIG Yamato or Missouri, I want be able to hammer that DD with 9 big guns (or even better, with my cruiser sized secondary armament as well!) I've always preferred combat flight sims over arcade combat shooters, because the sims are more realistic/harder. I almost feel like a less serious 'rule set' in which the ships are "cartoon-ized" and not specifically based on any real ship, might be the answer. At least for those just wanting to battle ASAP. Maybe have the 'classes' separated completely by how many guns they have. I.E.- The fastest speed would have 1 gun and the slowest 4 or more? The width/bread of the ships would also be narrowest for the 1 gunner and widest for the 4+ gun ship. -Just spit-ballin' here- P.S.- some of these issues aren't just my opinion, these are things also agreed upon by others I have talked about the hobby with.
