This is another Newbie getting his first ship. I will be under MWCI's rules (fast gun). I Like Battlers Connection's Prince Eugen (3 props,1rudder) but I kind of like the Des Moines too. since its over 700 ft long it gets 1.50 times its class in rudder area, maybe prince Eugen too. Not to crazy about how long these ships are, maybe there Cleveland class is the best choice. Im asking here, which is best for fast gun: Des Moines (3.5 units, 4props,1ruder, 1 1/2 class 3 rudder) Cleveland (3.0 units, 4 prop, 1ruder) Prince Eugen (3.5unit, 3prop, 1 ruder) thanks, darren matthews
I just thought id throw this one in the ring. for 10 inches longer than Des Moines (and a little wider) I could scratch build a Alaska class. they are a 1 rudder class 5 ship over 700 ft in length so it would get extra rudder like the des moines would. It could have side mounts under MWC rules. Just one per side and then the stern guns. thanks, Darren Matthews
Both the Des moines and Alaska will not be very maneuverable, but both have their points. Des Moines set up with triple sterns is as powerful off the stern quadrant as many (most?) allied battleships are. Alaska is a rare boat for MWC, but definately battle-able. I'd set up with dual sterns and a rotate sidemount. Again, both would be open water boats. If you're looking for a more all-rounder the Cleveland would be a good choice. Pretty good maneuvering for a cruiser, good weight, enough room for internals. On the Axis side, Prinz Eugen is a great cruiser. Dual sterns and a bow gun (or triple sterns, just in seperate turrets) makes it a powerful choice. It all depends on what you like. Going with a kit would probably save some time to get on the water faster but if you're madly in love with a boat, I say go for it.
Ok Since I actually own both hulls and have a Battle Ready Des Moines that I had just battleed for the first time this past weekend I will spill my thoughts out to you. The Des Moines is a good ship the Tripple stern makes her deadly when they can be used, but her length has two faults. First is that she turns in about a length and a help of herself which makes it easy for the better armed battleship to get along side and muscle you to even worse positioning where that 23 speed does you little good. I actually was muscled by a NC this last weekend while on my five. The good news is when the guns are firing at the right speeds you can hit and damage folks from about 4 feet out which keep you clean of entanglements most of the time. It takes a lot to sink the Des Moines due to the amount of hull volume and the fact she has a lot of freeboard even at max weight. The Prinz Eugen has not been built by me yet, but from the look of things I can tell she will battle very similar to the Des Moines. I plan to arm her with 2 stern and a pivot bow gun. The Pivot bow will make up for a few faults of my Des Moines and give the Prinz Eugen a chance to shoot on a run it as well. The Prinz Eugen should sit lower in the water than the Des Moines and that combined with the smaller rudder will hurt the turning ability. Most folks power the center prop, but I am planning to use the BC single motor and dual shaft gear box to power the outer shafts much like I have done on the Des Moines. Cleveland Class will be a great ship. It is not as long as the other two so that will make her more Manoverable which I have found to make for fun with a borrowed Houston Class back in November and also a loaned Admerial Sheerer for one day while I had some things to fix on the Des Moines. If I had the chance to just choose from the start again I would likely have choose either an Atlanta Class, Cleveland, Von Der Tann, or a Scharnhorst. They are either more Manoverable or just can mount more guns than the des Moines or Prinz Eugen. Again this is just an opinion and really in the end you get to choose what you want, but I thought atleast hearing an opinion with Experience with the Des Moines in action would be of help to you for choosing. It really all depends on what sort of fighting you wish to do and I forgot to mention I battle MWC in their Region 3.
I'd rank the three cruiser like this: #1 Cleveland, better turning makes up for one less gun. #2 Des Moines, trips sterns are great, but it is a BIG ship that does not turn well. #3 PE, does not turn and does not get trip sterns the third gun is kind of waisted. Alaska is a bad choice for MWC. It is a class 4 with 4.5 units. It is really long at 809' has a very tinny rudder and will not turn. The gun set up would be trip stern, one being a 75 round gun or two bow sidemounts and a stern gun. If you go with trip sterns the Des Moines has the same set up and turns better and is faster. If you go with the sidemounts you'd have the same set up as a French Strousburg (SP?) and that would turn a lot better. A Scharny would be a much better ship then Alaska. It gets 5 units and twin rudders. Alaska will get crushed by any fast BB or BC and with the high freeboard the CAs & CLs will stern gun it to death.
I view the Alaska from the other side being Axis. All Allied's that want to build her, are welcome too, we will welcome you with open arms. You will never hear the Axis side tell you no, thats not a great ship to build, so go ahead and build one, and be a great target for us. [] My choice if I was starting over again. Allied Cruisers - Suffren, 3 unit 2 rudders, It is French, but 2 rudders. Battleship - Maryland, 5.5 unit, just looks cool, but fights very well. Axis Cruisers/Battlecruiser - Von Der Tann, 4 unit 2 rudders. Battleship - Scharnhorst, 5 unit 2 rudders.
sounds like I really don't want triple sterns in the Des Moines. sounds like I need a bow gun set up to make those short cruisers pay for crossing the bow. Will that even work?? My bad on the alaska, for some reason I was thinking she was a class 5 ship. now that I looked that up she is indeed a class 4.5, darn. How does the South Dakota class BB stack up? its as short as the cruisers, 2 X as wide, twin rudders and has side mounts as well as triple sterns. Thanks, Darren
Bow Guns are not all that effective on the Des Moines due to the Atlantic bow. I am going to try one on the Prinz Eugen, but I am not sure how effective it would be. the Sodak is ok, but she is slow when compared to the NC. If I was going to get into a ship that size I would go ahead and get an NC.
An interesting layout was suggested a while ago on this forum for a Baltimore or Oregon City cruiser (you can cut down the ). Take a look at what Buddy says at the bottom of this page: http://www.rcnavalcombat.com/rcnavalcombat/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=47&whichpage=4 http://www.rcnavalcombat.com/rcnavalcombat/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=47&whichpage=5 I think the most interesting point is halfway down page 5, where he says to angle your bow guns slightly off the centerline so you can get some down angle to score hits below the belt.
With MWC rules the Des Monies has 50% larger rudder than Baltamore. So it turns better, even with the longer length. Also putting a short range bow gun on a cruiser is a good way to get sunk. You want to have your bow pointing away from battleships when you shoot at them. Tripples in a Des Monies are OK. As the Des Monies turns about as well as most short cuisers. It still has a bit of target area, but if you make the BC hull the correct deck to keel height it should not be too bad. I would not suggest a 6 unit boat for a rookie, class 4 and under is a better idea.
I don't think I'd be willing to close the book on Prinz Eugen's turning quite so fast. Yes she's long, and yes she has a single rudder, but if you power the center shaft instead of the outboard one, you're going to put all the water flow across that one rudder. Powering the outboard shafts, yes, her turning will be terrible, but I think with the inner shaft powered, she might turn on par with the Des Moines. If you want the short hull of the Cleveland, and the cool looking superstructure of the Des Moines, the USS Fargo/USS Huntington may be for you. They're modified Cleveland class ships (usually counted as part of the Cleveland class) with a superstructure very similar to the Des Moines. Here are some pics: http://www.navsource.org/archives/04/106/04106.htm Mike D
what about an atlanta class cruiser, useing team delta boards, solenoids and a esc? Can twin guns fit in the same turret, atlanta's use the 5"/26 cal. DP mount that was the secondary cannon for all cruisers and up. Thanks, darren
Atlanta is a wee bit small. I think you'd be better off with a Cleveland, personally. The hull is also close enough to make a Brooklyn/St Louis or a Wichita class Heavy Cruiser as well. For the record, Atlanta carried 5"/38s. If room is a space for you, you could always place the guns in the wing turrets, and run the magazines along the inside of the hull, so the center section is available for batteries, electronics, etc. The 5"/25 was an AA only mount (sometimes used vs surface targets...not truly a DP mount) used by the pre-war cruisers and battleships as a heavy AA gun. While not designed as a surface-to-surface mount, it was fairly effective in the role at closer ranges.
HI Guys Boy there is a lot of good ships here! Ok I agree that the Atlanta are a bit small and would be a headach for rookies to build light. Now the Cleveland cruisers are a lot better then the small cruisers and not as big as the Desmoines,or the Prince Eugens. Ok I have to say I have been against thebest probably more then most, so you can take it or leave it from my experience,Prince Eugens work best for turning useing the center shafts due to it will pu tthe pressure of the prop wash right there on the rudder. Now Balitmores will out turn the Desmoines not by a great margin but they will do it, they also will out turn the Prince, the trick is to plan out in your head what your next move is in battleing, this comes from lots of stick time with your ship.Ok some where a idea of mine was taken a little off but there was 2 ideas that I had used ok. A to get over the rake of high bows try taking and angleing off to your allowed 15 degrees , this will do 2 things , it lets you lower your guns down so you dont have to shoot 6 ft out before it hits another ship. You can set the range where you want it! The other is you are now pointing your bow away from the enemy thus giving you a head start over them. Now I use this as a means to get the word out, we have had 2 Demoines here in the BBS ,a French BC, IJN Bc ,Seydetz ,Molke, Vonder tann, Invins,Indefatigble, Tigers,Californias, I have a USS South Dakota BB,A NC BB here,Andera Doria BB,Markgraff BB,Yamato BB,so basically we have or have fought just about every ship youi can think of. The bad part about the Balitmore is that no one other then myself builds them,and I am proably the only one in the last ten yrs that has fought one in small gun rules. Any way my best advice for a rookie that wants a kit is to go for the Cleveland cruiser, now if you like Axis I would look at the Mogamis for a cruiser. There thats my 20yrs 2 cents worth for a rookie.
gotcha, my bad. I should have consulted me conways before opening me mouth. Im just asking because I would like to rig it with dual sterns and those turrets looked small. I wouldn't want to split it into two different turrets even if it were rigged to fire together. Maybe the cleveland is the best choice. looks big enough to fit every thing in nice and easy. not to big either.
Yep, you're right. The Cleveland is a great ship to start off with, and the hull is very close to many many US ship classes, so it's not really limited to "just" the 27 Cleveland class ships. It's more or less the same hull as that used on the Fargo class, Brooklyn class, St Louis class and Wichita class, not to mention the Independence class carriers. That variety to get many different "looks" out of one hull is great. I think BC was brilliant to offer the Cleveland over some other hulls they could have produced. As for the Atlanta, if you look closely at the picture on the BC website of the model, the captain who built that ship appears to have set the guns in the second turret in the back or in the super structure under the third turret and actually run the barrels through the entire aft turret(s), so that's an idea you might want to look at if you do the Atlanta as well.
