HMS Agincourt for Big-Gun with DIY Fire Control System

Welcome to my build of HMS Agincourt for Big-Gun combat. This build will be unlike any you may have seen before, because of the inclusion of a fire control system designed to be copied by any other modeller of average skill. No knowledge of electronics is neccessary beyond the kind of basic electrical wiring needed to use solenoids or build a mag-throttle, as this is a mechanical system. It should be possible to retrofit exhisting ship models with the system, especially those with centerline turrets, although in some cases significant modification may be neccessary. If you can replace the serpentine belts on a car engine, thread a sewing machine or rig a sailboat you should have no problem building a system to aim all of your ships weapons at the same spot on your enemy's ship. If you are not interrested in the build of Agincourt but want to know more about the fire control system a seperate thread will be started in the R+D forums when it is time to install the system in the model. A seperate thread will also appear in the weapons forum for the construction of the ship's guns and torpedoes.


Note to moderators- Any and all drawings and plans of mine that I post, for this and all future builds, may be added to the free plans section at your discretion- if you think they are good enough. I would like to see an archive of ship plans and part drawings that new people can immediately turn to to begin construction without delay, in the same way that model
airplane plans are widely available for free download on the web. I think this could only benefit the hobby.


When I finally solved the problem of old-school mechanical fire control (as opposed to electronic fire control which has been done but is difficult for most to build or is still unavailable) I went looking for a ship in which to install it. I wanted a ship with a large number of turrets, preferably one of which could rotate 360 degrees (to use as a pointer for
targeting) and a large number of fire control zones- more on those in a bit. Looking through the drawings in the back of "Warships Of The World" by Gino Galuppini, there she was- seven turrets including one 360, and three torpedoe tubes, twenty 6" and ten 3" guns. A perfect choice for a technology demonstrator. And the name! Commemorating a battle where the the
English defeated the French with a storm of concentrated fire. Knowing that significant developements in this hobby tend to be named after the ships they are installed in (Arizona guns and Indianna Cannon) what could be more appropriate for a fire control system than the most heavily gunned ship (number, not size) ever built. If you invent it you get to name it, at
least until the marketing types get hold of it. I dub thee the Agincourt System.


So let's begin. Searching the web for information, drawings and photos of the ship it soon became apparent that section and sheer drawings of the hull were not to be found online, so I ordered a set of plans Of Agincourt in her 1918 configuration from George Goff, and was less than thrilled with the drawings recieved, especially with the below the waterline details.
Only 2 shafts- the inboard, and no bilge keels. Also only a limited number of sections which seem to be "off" and no hull to shaft fairings- common at the time. A really strange looking rudder, like a flat metal plate. I was to learn later that there may indeed not be any surviving authentic drawings of the ship, and that most modeler's- and draftsman's- efforts are
there' own best guess at the original ship, or are based on the large model in the Istanbul Naval Museum. This model, though large and quite beautiful, has so many errors above the waterline that anything below the waterline must be considered questionable. So back to the web to study every drawing, photo, model or piece of artwork I could find for documentation, and reconcile their differences. With these I was able, for the most part, to construct an accurate (with the exception of a few grey areas) mental model of the ship as she exhisted during the later portion of the Great War, to me her most attractive appearance. Or at least, MY best guess at it. Back to the Goff plan. I had a copy made scaled so that the length of the ship as drawn was 55 and 1/4 inches. As drawn, the plan did not have any of the projection of the bow ahead of the deck, so on this copy I used a 6' straight edge to draw a centerline the length of the plan view. I then added the projecting bow to 3/4" ahead of the deck, giving the required 56" loa. I lofted lines for the hull width below the waterline and at the waterline, blending them together with the deck at the point where her hull sides become vertical. I then had more copies of this drawing made, to cut up, spill coffee on, mutilate, etc. On one of these I placed jar lids, coins, AA batteries and pencils to represent main and secondary armament ( the tertiaries are all in the ss) and ribs, as well as other shapes to represent various equipment. In this way I could
be sure that the ribs would not interfere with any of the gun systems, and there is suficient space between ribs for battery packs through-out the length of the ship. The ribs are irregularly spaced, but not radically so.


Note- The shape of Agincourt's bow is one of those details that varies with every depiction. I have chosen to use a fairly protruding version so that, should an authentic plan or photo prove it was shorter it will be easier to sand it back and re-glass than it would be to add more length and blend in with the hull contours in the reverse situation.


With the locations of the ribs thus determined I measured the distance from the centerline to the edge of the deck (and waterline and underwaterline where appropriate) ON ONE SIDE ONLY and doubled these measurements. I then proceeded to draw my own frames using the TLAR meathod and a great deal of back and forth measurement. This way I end up with perfectly symetrical frames. I also reversed the bow and stern views left and right to avoid accusations of having copied the Goff drawings. As you can see from my sections drawing, the hull bottom and subdeck will be 3/16" luan plywood, as are the ribs. The upper edge of each rib bottom section slopes to aid water channeling and the slope is the same on each rib to
facilitate construction of battery boxes closed with plexiglass windows. The ribs extend only as high as the casement gun deck because the entire deck from forward of turret Sunday to aft of turret Saturday is one piece. With the section plans roughed out, back to the copier to print out enough copies to begin cutting out cardboard templates to use laying out parts on the wood. The patterns will then be stored against the day someone else local wants to build another Agincourt. Time to start work on the bow and stern keels, and then start cutting wood.


Note- There are two "grades" of luan plywood. One has a thick inner core of soft wood with thin veneer cladding- do not use this. Use the other type with layers of equal thickness. I will be fiberglassing the inside as well as the outside with cloth and resin, building up to a 1/4" thickness.


I think that will do for a first installment. For a very good history of HMS Agincourt- a capsule version of the book "The
Great Dreadnought" go to:

http://steelnavy.com/CombrigAgincourt.htm

 

This seems like a good time to discuss the fire control system, so some of the model's design and construction decisions are more easily understood.


The problem of fire control is separated into two operations:

For directional control in the Agincourt fire control system, all of the weapons that have the same arc of rotation are connected by steel cables and rotate together, so that their barrels remain parallel. This is one fire control "zone". Also included in this group is a pulley made of a non conducting material. This pulley has electrical circuit tracks with a gap that aligns with the gun barrels as all the weapon mounts rotate. The pulley is located on a vertical shaft and is free to rotate on it, driven by the steel cable. The shaft has a wiper arm with electrical contacts that make and break contact with the circuit tracks on the pulley as it rotates, driven by a servo of the continuous rotation type. An additional small contact is located on the pulley in line with the circuit gap. This provides power to activate the firing circuit, only when the weapons are aligned with the wiper arm. Normally the weapons are at rest. When the servo moves the wiper arm,
contact is made with the power supply tracks to drive the rotation motor. The weapons rotate until the circuit gap aligns with the wiper arm and motion stops. The weapons cannot fire until they stop moving. If the servo rotates in the opposite direction, current of reversed polarity is supplied to the drive system and the weapons rotate in the opposite direction. Any number of these control systems can be stacked on the shaft, and any weapon that can bear on the target, will. A polarity reversing circuit allows for weapons to rotate from their maximum rotation position to the other side of the ship, as when a target is tracked around the stern from one side to the other.


To adjust for range the system uses pairs of idler pulleys arranged in shackles that "pinch" the steel drive cables between weapons and between fire control zones. For example Bismarck or Hood would have 3 shackles, while Graf Spee gets one. The shackles move from side to side, pulling in and letting out cable to converge or open the distance between the barrel ends of the various weapon mounts. All the shackles are driven by a pushrod that runs the length of the mounts. The pushrod is driven by a belcrank which in turn is driven by a servo mounted on a turntable through a sliding link. The servo can be linear or standard. The track of the sliding link aligns with the keel of the ship. Space permitting turntable may be mounted on the vertical shaft. This "range turntable" can be mounted anywhere but must align with the wiper arms on the main shaft, ie; through a chain drive or flat cog belt. A peg on the range servo arm moves in the sliding link. The sliding link does not rotate with the turntable. In operation, at rest with weapons aimed at zero degrees relative (dead ahead) and maximum range (right tx stick full forward) the drive peg is at the center of the turntable. Pulling the tx stick down to reduce range and converge weapons causes the drive peg to travel in the slot of the sliding link, doing nothing. Centerline gun mounts in trail cannot be converged. With the weapons at a bearing of 90 degrees relative (full starboard beam) and maximum range the drive peg is once again at the center of the turntable. When the tx stick is pulled down to reduce range, the range servo pushes the peg off center, against the side of the sliding link track, operating the
belcrank, pushrod, shackle belcranks and shackles, converging the weapons and reducing the range of convergence. At a bearing of 45 degrees relative and a given range the system applies a value of .707 of maximum convergence to compensate for the decreased "spread" of the weapons along the length of the ship. For targets to port the turntable mechanically reverses the servo and adjusts for any bearing. It is, in fact, a very simple fire control computer.


For ships like Dreadnought or predreads where convergence of wing turrets is desired forward or aft, a second sliding link and shackle system can be mounted at 90 degrees and driven by the same servo, although care will have to be excercised to prevent interference between the two systems.


There are construction details and quirks, refinements, bells and whistles to discuss later.

 

Just a heads-up that this build will be extremely difficult to fit all main guns in, along with sufficient CO2 and battery power to operate. You may need to run dual bottles and other tricks to fit everything, and even then I'm not sure how you'll fit Turret Saturday in. It would work outstandingly well in 1:96 scale, however.

 

Yes, for this build a shoehorn will be required equipment. The available room in the stern was definitely on my mind when I drew the ribs. The other main concern was propeller clearance. Agincourt had 9' props and was built in a shipyard on a river, so her props almost certainly did not sweep below the draft of her hull. In scale that means the model gets 3/4" props. The rules allow for an increase in size to 1 and 1/8" if necessary to meet the minimum-maximum speed, however. That is why there are two concentric circles in the location of the props on my frames drawing, to represent minimum and maximum sizes allowed, and still provide bottom (and work table) clearance. The guns should all fit, including the torpedo "gun", though I may have to shave a little off the inside of some ribs. At least that far aft in the hull there are no more secondaries to worry about.

As for fitting in all the guns, the one real problem with a mechanical fire control system is the space it occupies. In this case, with 8 control zones making a stack of control pulleys, it will probably be necessary to mount the range turntable separately, so it will take the space of about 1 and 1/2 gun installations- call it 9 guns being installed, instead of 7. The pulley assembly, or gun director, will be mounted under the ss so the servo can be mounted inside it. The range turntable, being relatively short, can probably be mounted over the bilge pump. It's the same problem with models of smaller ships of the same era that have gun turrets in the center of the hull. Brick shaped gel-cels are not an option. Fortunately gas cylinders and batteries come in a variety of sizes, in the case of batteries, shapes. Gas storage will most likely be industrial gas sample bottles- 1 and 1/2" O.D. and various lengths. Primary battery storage will be between ribs in the turn of the bilges where most builders put concrete sealer. Add 4 regulators, 13 solenoids and 30+ servos and it's done! What could be simpler?

 

30+. Some of the firing setups may be replaced with more solenoids, and I may be able to link more of the secondary and tertiary depression systems more efficiently, but in the neighborhood. Remember the theme of this build is old-school DIY, so some servos will be hacked to use drive trains for unconventional purposes like mechanical firing timers. Imagine it's 1989 and the model will be using one of those new Futaba gold boxes for control (it really will).

Kids, ask grandad about those.

 

Rest assured that nothing you or any of the other naysayers around here could possibly say would dissuade me from this project. I am blessed with a mix of 50/50 German and Irish heritage that gives me a streak of megalomania a mile wide and the insanity to believe it is possible. Or as my favorite evil genius would say:


Yes Pinky. Today we are going to take over the pond!


All kidding aside, if it wasn't a challenge it wouldn't be half as much fun for me. And thankyou for not telling me to try something simpler to start with. I hate to read something like that when a new person comes on discussion boards asking for help getting started. It amazes me sometimes how attitudes have changed in this country over the last few years.

But to address your concerns: Yes it will be a complex project to build and operate. However realizing this from the beginning I have taken steps to mitigate the maintenance issue as much as possible. Consider for example the need to reload 40+ guns between sorties, in addition to refilling gas, charging/replacing batteries and repairing battle damage. To avoid this problem, I won't reload the guns. At least not the secondaries. They will be self reloading. Taking a page from real warships, ammunition will be stored in a magazine low in the hull for balance. It will be delivered to a distribution hopper by a "shell hoist", a servo drive running a ribbon belt with magnets. The ammunition is then gravity fed to the various guns. The drive comes from a servo with a dead board, and so is recycled junk, and duplicate spares can be kept on hand for very little money. This solves another problem I expect to encounter when this ship does eventually see combat. When Agincourt first appears in a battle, I expect her to be the most popular target for many enemy captains, and to spend a lot of time being chased by several at any one time, hoping to run her out of ammunition and then move in and sink her. With the ammo distribution system, 9/10 of the available onboard supply will go to the guns being used. With Agincourt it isn't just all about the guns, it's about using them a lot, and most effectively. So many of the systems and tips in this thread are designed to reduce maintenance and keep the ship on the water.

You may be thinking that I am trading one form of complexity for another, and to a certain extent this is true, but mechanical complexity is much easier to work on than sophisticated electronics. Consider the new cars of today compared to the not to distant past. If something goes wrong with a modern car you probably cannot fix it, and unless you are a trained service technician you would be foolish to try. Back in the day you could repair many problems yourself. This "user friendliness" is what I am building into Agincourt.

As to costs- I expect the total cost of materials to be less than $500. You just have to know where to shop. I have been telling people to go to RC flea markets and auctions for some time now, seemingly without result. Having done so myself for several years I now have over a hundred servos of various sizes to choose from for this and other ship projects. Nearly twice that if I raid my various model aircraft for parts. This does not include a smaller number of dead "parts" units. The average cost of these was $1. All are used but in good working order, mostly analog replaced by digital or more powerful units as people progress to larger and larger planes. As local flyers have learned that I want old or glitch servos many have given me old units that they consider unreliable for aircraft. A little tuner cleaner and they are good as new. I have a collection of brushed motors now considered obsolete for most uses, ranging from replacement servo motors to 05 car motors. The four speed 400s for Agincourt cost $4. The speed controllers for port and starboard were $5 each- not that big a savings over the Chinese units but every little bit helps. Various small parts and tools found in junk boxes and storage drawer units at auctions- pennies on the dollar cost. High strength stainless steel control line cable (for the fire control system), 4 full new reels for $2. Battery chargers for NiCad, nihm and pb cells are usually about the same as the lowest prices of new units today. Hey, you can't win them all. I stick to the ones that charge multiple packs.

Ebay is your friend. I found a lot of 19 Clippard ETO-3-12 solenoids for $94.99. With shipping they came to about $6 each. 17 MPA-7 actuators came to $3.18 each. Similar offerings have secured most of what I need for several ships.

I forgot to mention that, when shopping for sheets of plywood at Lowes or Home Depot you should go for the damaged ones. Contractors won't take them and neither will anyone else with perfect ones in the same stack. Ask how much of a discount for the damaged ones. The store manager will be happy to finally sell them and you can usually get a full sheet at half price. I got mine for $7.

Scrounge. Six interior doors (closet) were discarded in a local remodeling job. I now have deck material for a very large fleet of models. Total cost $0.00

Repurpose. I still need one high-pressure regulator for the ship, but for the rest this unit should do nicely:

http://www.harborfreight.com/150-psi-air-compressor-regulator-kit-with-gauge-68223.html

The knob is an integral part of the mechanism and cannot be discarded, but the gauge unscrews and a plug can close the port to save room. It has two female 1/4" Npt ports.

I still also need gas bottles, or I could make it a compressor ship for substantially less if I have enough battery capacity.

Primary batteries are AA Nimh and Nizn assembled in packs to fit the varying spaces between ribs along the length of the ship, and supplying buses for the 4.8v receiver and servo system, the 7.2v drive motors and 12v solenoids to fire weapons. I bought a large number of these at a local bulk discount chain for $1 per cell. I have to test the solenoids to see if they will operate at lower voltages as some have reported. Any remaining spaces in the ship when completed will be used for additional batteries as balance permits.

All of these expenses have been spread over approximately 3 years as real life threw other things in my way.

As for floating with everything I want to install, with two 3/4 length battery/navionics boxes and 15 accumulator tanks I'm beginning to wonder if it will sink.

Either way, I hope to have her ready to display at our next local RC flea market on super bowl sunday.

I'm attaching an old pic of myself involved in one of my other hobbies so you may have a better idea of my hobby skills, and need worry no further.

With that deadline in mind I need to get back to cutting wood.

 

Agincourt's Bow (see first post) would have been meant for the Black and Mediterranian Sea as opposed to the North Sea. The vessel was meant for Turkey, not the Royal Navy. They needed to counter the Greeks and the Russians. The bows would not have to worry about the Ice pack.

MMJR

 

Actually she was Brazilian before she was Turkish. Even less ice to deal with.

I am following this with interest, not because I desire a gin palace, but I think it would be amazing to see one on the water.

 

I too want to see the Gin Palace when its done. Rocketeers are VERY resourceful when the need arises. I do have a question, what scale is this ship to be built to ?

 

Rocketsmith, have you considered a mechanical interrupter for each cannon, to block the firing signal when it is not in a valid firing arc? I've seen such a system used very successfully on HMS Lion's Q turret. The builder placed an SMAV valve between the firing servo and the Q turret actuator. He then placed a step on the round turret, that would press the SMAV's button whenever the cannon was pointing 15 degrees astern or less, blocking any firing signal from reaching the cannon. X turret would still receive the firing signal as normal. Perhaps that will reduce the number of servos and solenoids you'll need.

 

I'm not building to any one set of rules. I live near Pittsburgh Pennsylvania (I used to just say Pa but it turns out that's a state in Mexico) and there are no Big-Gun groups near me, so I'm trying to get a group started in my area. As such I'm free to pick and choose from the various rulesets to put together a set of rules that encourage individual creativity in order to emulate naval warfare of the period as closely as possible. And I don't care where a good idea comes from. I like WWCC's 60 degree rule because it leaves bilge keels alone for re-skinning ships. It makes sense, given that stability is critical for accurate long-range gunnery and everything I build that had them, gets them, and bilge keels live at the 45% line. I like Treaty's 85% penetrable length of waterline rule. IT'S SIMPLE! It makes sense. I like Empire State Battle Groups capability rule- If the original ship or the ship's crew could do it, it's legal (except for patching holes). The historical term I like to abuse for this concept is Unrestricted Warfare. Similarly there are rules I won't be using, but they are subjects for future threads.

Nick> In my copy of AotS Bartolomeo Colleoni they refer to the forefoot as the steel plate that extends below the bow, and to which the cables for minesweeping with paravanes are attached. It looks like a can-opener for submarines. I believe that's what the cables at Agincourt's bow in this pic are for. In WW 1 both sides together deployed about 300,000 mines, so just about everything but subs were equipped for sweeping.


Kotori> That is almost what I will be doing. Instead of a mechanical interruption of the firing process, I'll be using roller lever switches activated by a cam on the upper side of the bottom flange of the spindle that rotates inside the barbette. Turrets Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday and Friday will all use these switches to interrupt the circuit path to the appropriate solenoid. In addition, 3 more switches around Turret Friday will be used to arm the appropriate torpedo gun. I meant to discuss this in the fire control system thread, but I guess there will be a lot of crossover.

 

Joel Goodman used to run a Gin Palace in the early 2000's, very good looking boat! Best of luck on this build, watching with interest.

 

What format was/is she built to, and how was she armed? Do you know if it is still in use or if not, what has become of her? If you have any pictures please post them. In fact if anyone has photos of any other Agincourts built for combat, in any format please post them. I welcome any documentation of previous builds. As I see it, since this is the first Agincourt thread on this site it's also a good place to archive any previous builds. You will not be hijacking the thread.

 

http://www.westernwarshipcombat.com/gallery/album35 completed build
http://www.westernwarshipcombat.com/gallery/album19 construction

Check this out. HMS Lion, with amidships Q turret. I was wrong, it uses an electric switch and a Clippard solenoid to interrupt gas flow to the firing valve. Since you've said you are using solenoids directly to fire the cannons, it should work just fine. Photos of the mechanism are on page 2 of the first gallery.

While you're at it, take a good close look at the rest of the album. Lion is remarkably similar in size to Agincourt, so you can see how a fully built and successful warship looks like. Just eyeballing the ship, it looks like you could fit all the main cannons by removing the battery, CO2 bottle, and recovery float. That is achievable (but difficult) if you use different batteries and bottle. But I hope that illustrates why people are doubtful about your intention to arm the mains, secondaries, tertiaries, and torpedoes. There simply isn't room for that many functioning cannon.

 

First let's be sure we're on the same page about the solenoids- I'll be using them to supply the high pressure to the MPA-7 Air Pilot (actuator) to open the buna valve in each gun assembly.

Thanks for the links to the Lion pages. I don't think I've seen those before. I'm hoping the lever switches worked alright after repeated sinkings?

I have looked at a lot of similar builds though. They all work, and do what the builders intended, as I'm sure the Lion does. Usually though, there is no space left over. None. Because it's not necessary. Why bother? Nothing else needs to be installed. This almost always results in a clutter of wires and hoses that work, and usually quite well, but if they were the electrical and plumbing supply of a building would never pass code inspection, and a lot of useable space is wasted, because it's not needed. To me it looks like a lot of space within the lion was wasted and she could have had armed secondaries as well.

Perhaps it's just that I have a different way of looking at things. Take for example the idea of fire control. I know of two versions of electronic fire control. One has been installed in two ships that I know of (in your club I think) and is not widely available. The other requires electronic and computer programming skills I don't posess and don't currently have the time to aquire to build. This system was installed in the late Bob Allen's (Shaky Bob) Tirpitz- current whereabouts unknown. Three ships equipped with fire control systems available for years, because they are too arcane for most people in the hobby to use, including myself. I can count on the fingers of one hand the people I know who could- by making a fist. Clearly it would simply be impossible for a person like me to have a fire control system in a model ship. Or so most in this hobby would have said a few days ago. I never believed it was impossible, and went ahead and invented a system of my own that others without an electronics background could build and use, and now I'm sharing it with the hobby.

Back To Agincourt. As I said above, most builders end up using all of the space available in a ship because they design their systems to accommodate only what is necessary in their ships. I realize this is often not the case with Iowas and Yamatos but bear with me here. I'll let you in on a secret. I'm not planning on installing _just_ the 47 guns Conways sais I can. The fire control system is one of a list of 14 items on my list that I'm trying to make room for. I may not be able to get all 14 in, especially since some are still just concepts, but _just_ the guns? Piece of cake.

From the extreme bow and moving aft: Paravane servo for minesweeping. Followed by single accumulator supplying one torpedo gun on each side ahead of Sunday turret in historical location. Sunday and Monday turrets, operated by single accumulator in a dual configuration, accumulator aft under ss. Followed by small accumulators, one each port and starboard, each supplying 3 (possibly 4, documentation varies) secondaries covering forward quarters. Followed by space reserved for special project #7, below secondaries control links in forward ss. Followed by one accumulator, supplying 1 forward ss tertiary (possibly 2, documentation varies) and 4 casemate secondaries each side through two firing circuits, one each side. Followed by turrets Tuesday with an L shaped accumulator that turns aft, and Wednesday turret with an L shaped accumulator turning forward, beside the accumulator for Tuesday. Aft of Wednesday and to either side are two accumulators, one each port and starboard, supplying aft quarter secondary and tertiary guns. Under the aft ss is located the gun director, beneath the control links for secondary and tertiary guns for aft quarters. To the rear of the gun director is the range turntable, followed by Thursday turret with an L shaped accumulator turning aft. Friday turret has an L shaped accumulator turning forward. Saturday Turret has an L shaped accumulator turned aft, beside the accumulator for the stern torpedo gun, which fires below the waterline, under the rudder servo. Gas bottles and regulators are located in the stern to either side of Thursday, Friday and Saturday turrets, and in the center hull to other side of Tuesday and Wednesday turrets and under the control links for the casemate secondaries. The drive motor for turrets Sunday, Monday, Tuesday and Thursday (fire control zone 1) is located where convenient, as is the drive motor for fire control zone 2, turrets Wednesday and Saturday. Ship's drive motors are located between ribs in direct drive configuration. A second bilge pump may be installed forward pending rules development.

Here is a link to a drawing of Agincourt to help with the above description:

http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=hms agincourt&col=fcdfcd6d05eacecb65f4&FORM=IMGCOL&crslsl=0#view=detail&id=8A6A72641FF8F03AD2374038E7B24D6B63E2EAF6&selectedIndex=24

I think that about covers it for now.

For a battleship model of this size I don't believe anything is impossible as far as emulating the prototype. To me, "impossibility" is a state of mind, and when someone sais something is impossible, what they are really saying is that it's impossible for them, so it must be impossible for you too. After a while it just gets embarrassing. Let's hear no more of it in this thread. Or better yet in the hobby.


I'm starting an arms race. Come on in, the water's fine!


There has been some progress: the ribs for the after half are cut out, but I've redrawn ribs 3,4,5 and 6 so I have to copy the drawing and make new patterns. It' a very slight change, but I want it right. Not much progress I grant you, but sometimes being a full-time care-giver doesn't leave much time for anything else.


I would like to know though, do underwater torpedo guns require a loop in the barrel to prevent water entering the mechanism and hindering performance?

Darn that took a while for me to type. I need speech to text software.