Just out of curiosity, has anyone built a ship with reloading cannons off an air tank, but the torpedo tubes need to be manually reloaded and pressurized? If so , what rules applied to them? Phil
I have seen it often. Most common is a pocket battleship with mains and torpedoes. When a ship has both mains and non-reloading torpedoes, the torpedoes can be reloaded using torpedo-reload rules (circle the reloading buoy and return, two minutes to reload, etc.) but the other guns and CO2 cannot be. If you power both guns and torpedoes via CO2, and you run out because of your torpedoes, you cannot refill. In general the torpedo-and-gun mix has not been successful, but it has been used effectively as an anti-torpedoboat defense. The idea is that if a torpedo-boat wants to attack, it has to expose itself to a torpedo attack in return. This works very well, unless the torpedo-boat skipper decides he's a better shot and is more likely to hit than you are. Once you've fired those torpedoes, you then expose that side until you can bring your ship back to reload that side. As a deterrent, it works on a small scale but not once the number of torpedo-boats goes up. The moment they have enough torpedo-boats to take the hit and sink you anyway, they'll do it. As a more offensive weapon, the torpedo-and-gun mix has mostly failed. The reason being mental overload. When you're in a running gun-fight with another battleship, you have to think about steering, matching speed, adjusting range in and out, rotating your guns to track the target, keep track of your damage and pumping, and many other variables. Adding in a further requirement that you position your opponent at just the right position (about that far away, no wait maybe closer oh **** time to shoot the guns again) adds another layer of complexity that few people can keep track of. Most skippers I've talked to say they usually forget to use torpedoes when they're fighting other battleships, and the same thing is true vs transports and any other gun-armed opponents. Even against torpedo-boats, they sometimes forget to fire even when the torpedoes are the only weapon aiming at the attacker.
I ran across these plans the other day , thats what prompted my question. It 's close to the displacement of the Mogami and a bit slower. This looks like the M class Cruiser that was never built, no rib plans though. Id like to build this one day but it would be pointless if its not allowed by Big Gun rules. http://dreadnoughtproject.org/plans/KM_Kreuzer_M_1938//langsschnitt_obere_ansicht_aufbauten_aufbaudeck_oberdeck_100dpi.jpg http://dreadnoughtproject.org/plans/KM_Kreuzer_M_1938//zwischendeck_panzerdeck_plattformdeck_stauung_100dpi.jpg with a ship of this size How do you determine what it can carry, Is there a round about or average weight for components?
hmm... comparison to the Mogami. Kreuzer M: 10400t deep load, 600' 4" length OA, 55' 9" wide, 2" belt, 35.5 knots design speed, 4x2 150mm, 2x2 88mm, and 2x4 TT Mogami: 10993t trial, 661' 1" length OA, 59' 1" wide, 4.9" belt, 37 knots listed speed, 5x3 6.1", 4x2 5", 4x3 TT Prinz Eugen: 19042t deep load, 679' 1.25" length OA, 70' 6" wide, 3.25" belt, 32.5 knots listed speed, 4x2 203mm, 6x2 105mm, 4x3 TT A couple of stand out points: Mogami is larger, faster, has heavier armor, and has two rudders compared to one. Prinz Eugen is bigger, slower (still fast enough), has heavier armor, the single rudder. Kreuzer M is smaller, on the fast side, has light armor, and a single rudder. There is also an Italian cruiser, the Duca d'Aosta is also an interesting ship, but I need to get to sleep so you'll have to look it up (it's a bit on the small side, though). I have often considered these ships for the "super cruiser" role: torpedo boat plus a rotating front cannon (possibly a stern cannon, but not needed). The challenge is to fit in the extra gas equipment that the reloading cannons need that the single shot cannons commonly used by torpedo cruisers.
I've looked at the Duca d' Aosta as well, but I keep going back to the German builds . Somthing about thier ships keeps pulling me back to the builds. Another dumb question , how can you tell if the Kreuzer has 1 rudder or 2 . I cant tell from the drawing and if there are 2 rudders side by side or 1. Alot of times I cant find the information regarding the rudders . Is there another source I need to be looking at ? Currently I look through Conways maybe Wikedpedia. I also wanted to share this information for those battlers in the S.F bay area. Karl may be interested in this. Historical Tall Ships Coming to the Port of Redwood City The brig Lady Washington and topsail ketch Hawaiian Chieftain are scheduled to arrive at the Port of Redwood City at p.m., Feb. 23 and berth at the Guest Dock on Seaport Court. The ships are scheduled to stay in Redwood City through March 7. Here’s the list of activities: • 2/24: 4 p.m. to 5 p.m. Walk-on tours. $3 donation per person. No reservation required. • 2/25-26: 10 a.m. to 1 p.m. Walk-on tours. $3 donation per person. No reservation required. • 2/25-26: 2 p .m. to 5 p.m. Lady Washington & Hawaiian Chieftain Battle Sail. $40-$60 • 2/26: 10 a.m. to 1 p.m. Lady Washington Adventure Sail. $35 • 2/28-3/2: 4 p.m. to 5 p.m. Walk-on tours. $3 donation per person. No reservation required. • 3/3-4: 10 a.m. to 1 p.m. Walk-on tours. $3 donation per person. No reservation required. • 3/3: 2 p .m. to 5 p.m. Lady Washington & Hawaiian Chieftain Battle Sail. $40-$60 • 3/4: 10 a.m. to 1 p.m. Lady Washington Adventure Sail. $35 • 3/6-7: 4 p.m. to 5 p.m. Walk-on tours. $3 donation per person. No reservation required. The three-hour Battle Sails feature the recreation of a typical 18th century naval skirmish involving two ships. Both vessels will fire real cannon charged with real gunpowder, but no cannon balls. Guests are encouraged to verbally taunt their adversaries and they have a chance to take the helm of a real tall ship, conditions permitting. Three-hour Adventure Sails include a chance to raise a sail, sing a sea shanty, and hear maritime stories. Tickets are available online or by calling 800-200-5239.
Oh man, I wish I could attend that! It would be awesome. But I'll be in South Carolina for most of this year, and then who knows where I'll end up.
A sign I look for to indicate 1 rudder or two in tandem is: Most sterns have some curve from the center line upwards till it reaches the more or less vertical sides. If you look at the rudder on the plans an the very top of it is precisely even with the lowest point of the hull in the area where the rudder is... then it is a single. If the very top of the rudder appears to be ever so slightly above the lower-most portion of the hull then that indicates that it is not at the center line but to one side, which means that if it is offset then there has to be one to match... tandem rudders. Das Butts
That and the Germans loved single rudders on the cruisers. They should have been designing with an eye towards making invincible model warships 70 years later. Can you imagine Lutzow with two rudders?
