Hello all. I have a question that may be a little silly, but here it goes. Why are there three 1:144 fast gun clubs? There is Treaty, IRCWCC, and MWC. Isn't the objective of the hobby to have more people and ships on the pond to put holes in? Would it be beneficial to try and merge all three of the clubs to have one unified organisation? I figure that it would lead to a greater turnout at battles, a greater pool of knowledge for newbies like myself, and overall a stronger club. Maybe this would be the case, maybe not. I have just been toying with the idea in my head and wanted to get a consensus. Is there too much difference between the three that merging is impossible? Cheers, Garrett
I'd say it is possible, just not worth it. Treaty and Fast gun are completely different animals and probably not even worth considering merging. Treaty was formed because a group of people didn't want to battle Fast Gun for various reasons. IRCWCC and MWCI are close enough that they could merge and a few years ago I would have agreed with you that they should. However now I think there are plenty of benefits of having multiple clubs. (Especially if the rule sets are so similar that most ships require no changes to switch between them.) Are giant 50 person battles fun, sure but they aren't the end all be all. I'd rather have two smaller NATS that I can go to depending on location/timing versus only one option and if I can't go for whatever reason I have to wait till next year. As long as there are a lot of local clubs that actively battle I think that is a lot more important and helpful to the hobby than any of the larger organizations. Local clubs grow the hobby, the organizations don't. With the email lists and the forum we have pretty good ways to communicate with others int he hobby and to share knowledge. Plus there are still(and always will be) some personality issues between clubs(really specific members) that aren't helpful to the hobby. Local Clubs are the key to this hobby. (by local I mean who you battle with regularly, which doesn't always mean down the street local, driving 2-4 hours to the "local" pond is common)
No. Bear in mind that each club did not rise in isolation. Splits and local rule changes exist for reasons. Clubs will continue to grow and split as personalities and preferences differ in sufficient quantities.
Fair enough. Thank you for helping me with this. I was not aware there was such a difference between treaty and MWC. I appreciate the help in clearing things up for me. Cheers, Garrett
Garrett, it would be nice to see the two main fast gun clubs regroup... but there are some very serious personality conflicts, and to be honest, too much hubris on both sides for this to happen. I had once thought of a true nationals that had the IRCWCC and MWC in a competition. That would only lead to several fist fights before the first ship hit the water. It's good to see captains who would like this. I myself would like to see it. The rules are not too different, and most if not all of the younger captains are not caught up in the old mess that caused the first split. But sadly, there are still those out there that would prevent this from ever being seriously talked about. I'm not saying they are wrong, just that there is too much personal divide.
The last two Nationals we had at Oakboro in 2012 were well attended by people from both clubs. I think that is as close as we need to get to recombining, I have been to NATS with over 40 ships on the water at once and it seems the 35-40 ship range is ideal for a nationals. With 40+ ships you have a really hard time making it around to shoot everyone on the other side before you run out of ammo, plus it starts to rob the CD and Site Host and scorer of their fun time. Ron Hunt 1992: IRCWCC "High Sortie Average - Class 3"
McSpuds, The two fleets back then was due to radio freqs, remember the freq tree and having to use clothes pins? Those days really sucked, as both sides would stack one or the other fleet. That meant one group was going to have a bad time (at least at the MWC nats I went to...) Was not unusual back then to be on the water, then lose control. Later you would find out that another close freq "walked" on you, or the other captain turned on his radio while in the pits "just for a second"
The largest Nats I've been in was my first in 2008 with no less than 49 boats on the water for the Monday morning battle. Was pretty impressive.
Yeah pretty much what everyone else said. There's not really a one-size fits all set of rules that everyone's going to like. Take treaty for example, most of the Treaty captains at one time came from fast gun. They left because they felt damage was out of control, and it's only gotten more so...so merging back in is really a non-starter for them. Hell, the IRCWCC events were an hour and a half from me this year and I didn't go. Part of that is how the guys who started treaty were treated when they initially split, part of it is I don't feel like having my boat shredded. I look at the MWCI videos of ships running two bilge pumps and guns shooting faster than an M60 machine gun, running in reverse the whole time and think that it doesn't even look fun. IRCWCC and MWCI are closer together as far as rules go, and I think there are several captains who battle in both. I'm not sure how much bitterness remains from the initial split so I could see them getting back together, especially if the rumors I have heard are true that numbers in both clubs are declining. As pointed out though, double the chances for fun has it's benefits as well for guys floating between the two. As far as local clubs go, as SnipeHunter said, they really are the key to survival. Big clubs lead to big drama and politics. That's why the clubs originally split in the first place. A small group of the right guys is far better imo than a huge group of whoever may show up. Big clubs just aren't worth the cost. As a treaty captain, with no treaty battlers within a reasonable radius it sucks. I just don't get to battle unless I drive out to Ohio from DC. I don't have access to a pond, so I am SOL at even hosting an event with friends conned into running my extra boats. I pray that Bob A up in PA finishes his boat, and decides he wants to do some local treaty battling rather than focus entirely on rejoining fast gun. So nurture the people close to you. Work with them when they get POd about things and want to quit. But at all costs try to keep the people close to you happy, or you might find yourself without anyone to battle at all.
