Kaiser vs Hegoland

I noticed that there were (2) active Helgoland class ships.

When I was looking at hulls, I noted that Helgoland and Kaiser were both missing fiberglass hulls. My analysis of the hulls was that the Helgoland class was very similar to the Nassau. Same gun layout, but 5.5” longer. All else being equal I would chose the shortest in a class. (best rudder/length).

Kaiser is almost identical in length to the Helgoland, but gives in line turrets over the wing turrets. If Kaiser had a fiberglass hull, it would be #1 on MY short list.

Then I see the all mighty Axis experts building Helgoland’s. What am I missing? Does the rear casement on the Helgoland give better haymaker location that the higher superfiring turret with no casements on the Kaiser?

 

I was looking at the fact that Helgoland and Kaiser being very similar in length to width ratio, drive shaft and rudder configuration. The only significant difference is in the turret location. It was my opinion that the central turret locations on the Kaiser would be better that the wing turret on Helgoland. However the gurus are building the one with wing turrets. I was hoping to get a lesson if there was a good reason for their decision.
Nassau and Kaiser would be on the top of "next ship" Nassau has a fiberglass hull Kaiser does not. Next ship may never happen. Just thinking......

 

Well,
There not speaking, but I now suspect that it has much less to do with turret location, and more to do with "one can of paint"
I tip my hat to their "evil" plan

Keith

 

I see no reason to build the 'in-between ship' ships in the German dreadnoughts. If you want the best turning then you want the Nassau as it will have 3 guns and 1 pump, and can whip around in between the ships on the enemy fleet doing strafing runs. Its hard to hit while moving and is great entertainment.

If you want more firepower then go with the Baden. Its only about 2-3 inches longer than the Helgoland or Kaiser and you get a few more pounds of weight to work with as well as an extra unit. This allows you to have dual pumps and 3 guns (Haymaker, stern sidemount, Bow gun) OR a Single pump and 4 guns (haymaker, stern sidemount, and two bow guns) or (haymaker, dual stern guns, and bow sidemount). I wouldn't run a ship with less than 3 guns so the Helgoland and Kaiser would never run dual pumps.

Why go to the trouble to build a 20lb+ DN and not get the extra unit. 28 seconds is a big disadvantage.. the extra gun in the Baden helps a lot. The extra weight also helps when you engage smaller ships so you can push them around.

I have found turning to be mostly defensive in nature and no so much offense.

MWCI guys don't normally run these ships due to their speed. Most folks run faster ships like the VDT or Molke due to their speed @ 26sec.

 

Johnny, wait until you observe the ircwcc horde with their outdated technology and lame pumps before you dismiss the in-between German dreadnoughts. I think it will change your opinion.

 

I am not sure how to reply to that..

Well.. any German Horde is a good thing in this hobby IMHO!

 

Also I don't like wing turrets. for me. Some folks use them for stern guns.. I don't like stern guns anymore.. low point makers. Wing turrets are usually mounted on the deck and as such are not 'superfire' turrets. This means no down angle so it becomes a long distance sidemount.. High points but very low chance to make 50 points.

So if I could only choose Helgoland or Kaiser I would take the Kaiser. However at the recent MWCI Nats.. the poor Kaiser was pounced on as a target of choice as one of the few Axis ships with 1 pump. I thought Peter did a great job with it.. but when the high-flow dual sidemounts of the Vanguard come calling... its game over for single pump ships.. and dual for that matter.

 

Hey I resemble that remark, and I don't have enough sense to know if I should be offended.

 

Of course I was talking about the rest of the Horde, lol. Everybody knows the Emperor of Planet Mongo makes awesome pumps and drives one of the bookends for the German dreadnought fleet.

 

Also if 1/2 the fleet is wing turret German Dreadnought, they may be difficult to tell apart.....

 

Both Nassau and Helgoland have conveniently located casement decks, I know that the Nassau can get good down angle on the haymaker. I am thinking that the Helgoland may as well. Nassau also sits ridiculously low in the water. You can pull up next to most boats and pound on them. Best they can do is shoot up your deck.
Nasty Evil little boat.

 

what do you call good down angle?

 

I call down angle in a Nassau irrelevant or even sometimes counterproductive since the cannon is underwater whenever the ship is moving.

 

I never had any problem getting belows. Given similar ships I would prefer superfire turret.