I think one of the biggest ristrictions upon the hobby is the limiting creative factor WWII and WWI ships have upon young minds. Some people, (myself included) would also enjoy something similar to a unresticted class, or a club that does not limit to just WWII ships and those specific guidelines set into the current rules. It would be nice to see a more open ended club that allowed one to bring his own home-brewed concoction as long as it fit within sizing requirments or other simi-restrictive guidelines, like applying a cost to turrents, speed, pumps, and hull size, allowing people to come up with origional ideas for battlefleets that do not nessisaraly look or feel like WWII ships.
I'm not quite sure what the objective is here. Is it something that allows ships outside of the time period to compete (such as monitors, ironclads, three-deck ships of the line, and modern frigates) or ships with little to no historical basis to compete? If its ships outside of time period, then I doubt its possible. Monitors and ironclads, no matter what scale, have so little real "target area" that they would be impossible to sink, while wooden frigates and ships of the line have an absurd number of cannons to arm, and modern frigates use missiles rather than guns for their main armament. If its non-historical ships, then thats a bit more reasonable. You assign a certain number of points to hulls of given dimensions and mass, and spend those points on numbers (and caliber?) of cannon, speed, and pumping capacity. The only potential problem I see is that without regulations on superstructure, you could wind up with a mobile floating box with a six-barrel gun poking out. This is an interesting idea, we should definitely explore it further.
I had actually contemplated allowing modern ships to compete, with guns inside their missile launchers. Of course, the VLS ships would be difficult to allow, but a bunch of pre-1990 ships would be eligible. (I know putting a cannon in the missile launcher would be tricky, but then I'm talking 1/96 scale, not 1/144). If I were to try that, I'd have to talk with other parties in the 1/96th realm about their feelings on this. I think an OHP or one of the American CGNs would look spiffy as heck, but I have 30+ plans sets that fit our time period, so it's not do or die for me. I think what Kurio is suggesting is a build-your-own design, based on points. I had thought about this, because it could be interesting to see what people build when unrestrained. Personally, I couldn't do it, because my favorite hull form is a SWATHship, which would not be competitive in our hobby. The two small hulls would fill up to quickly with water to be attractive.
Tug, lets just stick to what we got for now. These alterations would be like opening Pandora's box, besides with all the ships available to build in the alotted time period (and being in 1/96 scale) there's enough challenges out there. Subs for instance, lets get these suckers into the game, along with some of the other smaller more challenging boats.
I agree with Mark, normally I'm all for experimentation... But I also hate fragmentation, and that is what this would do... Create another group with another set of rules. I would recommend to kurio & tuggy to get permission from your local group to fight these illegal ships with the rest. I would highly doubt they would turn you down, why would they? More ships on the water is always better. Then build them & fight them locally. I know around here, people wouldn't have any issue with it... as long as they didn't break toooo many rules. However, You try to bring one to nats & you'll have a lot of waiting on your hands.
Like I said, Mark, I've already picked out my toy, and it's WW2. The points based design-your own would be cool, but I prefer to go with historical, and although I like modern ones, not a big thing for me. North Carolina will sail! The 1/96 one, I mean.
Justin, I'm working on 1/96 with Mark. Our clubs are going to use the same rules set, so consensus is important. I'm not on fire for modern ships, just thought about it a little. And like you say, fragmenting is not what we need, which is why Mark and I are collaborating on it. Two 1/96 clubs using one set of rules (and the same shiplist)will help to build a larger big guns/big hulls club. Banzai!
Im still keeping conformist, as im having a bit of fun with building a york class. I just think it might be fun to see catamarans and other disigns about, or below deck cannons. Its more or less just an idea to ponder upon.
I agree it would kick ass. I think if you are serious about it, you should go to your local club & say you want to build & fight a [insert favorite ship here]. I bet they would say, "run what you brung!" Most everyone I've ever met in the hobby would anyway... Personally, I've long said that if I make another ship after the NJ... it will be a sub! However there is a certain.... authenticity of old 3rd rate ships belting it out with metal balls against wood. I wouldn't want to deal with manuvering them using sail though, that would definately kill the mood. I think I have heard of people actually fighting with ships of this class. Do some googling, if you find it... you have to let us know. Aegis equipped boats could be simulated by just firing a hell of a lot of shells up in to the air & hoping they hit something... Which again would rock, but it would be tough to get any belows... alot of superstructure damage though... Most cruise missles could work fairly well for small gun b/c most ships use fixed cannons anyway.... but they would probably get slaugtered in big gun. Phalanx CIWS guns would really work well, but I don't think it is remotely possible to create such a system with our current level of technology. ----- I really think WWI&WWII era is the perfect time frame for this... it requires the least amount of authenticity sacrifices. sail warships/ships of the line were mostly powered by sail... this would make it impossible to fight. Sails would be useless, so we would have to change the design of the ship to have props. Current warships have reached a technology level we cannot easily or reliably duplicate. We are simply illequipped & untrained. Plus now the majority of sea battles are fought in the air... icky aeroplains.
I just remember playing Navyfield a while ago, and seeing the M Project cruiser. In Navyfield you can swap out for different guns, ammo, equipment, and engines, and when I first saw the M Pro (as they call it) it had 12x 5.9" guns in four triple turrets and a handful of torpedoes. I thought "Boy would I like to build that!" and then I looked up the real ship. 8x 5.9" guns in four double turrets, and 8 torpedoes. Sure it was faster, but I'd rather have the 12x guns and 32 knots than 8x guns and 35 knots. Darned computer games, getting my hopes up for nothing... Actually, I've been wanting to try Age of Fighting Sail combat for a long time. Fighting while under sail would be rather difficult, but if you have a single small prop that you can use when sails are up, it becomes much more interesting. Or you could choose a so-called "screw frigate" from near the end of the Age, after steam power was introduced and before ironclads were. The biggest problem is getting a decent number of broadside guns. It's no fun to have a ship with 44 gun ports and only fire 2 or 4 barrels per side, ya gotta have 10 or more real barrels poking out and firing. Of course, in a larger scale you can use the little two-masted brigs and schooners which would be perfectly fine with a 4-gun broadside. People DO do age of sail combat. Somebody in Texas has the CSS Alabama (I think) but no opponents. There's a guy building a 1/36 scale galleon: http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_4984659/tm.htm There's also Columbus Ironworks:http://www.combatships.com/ although that website has not been updated for a long time. Lastly, one time when my brother and I were out sailing with KGV and Scharnhorst, an interested passerby mentioned that he had once seen a pair of schooners fighting on that very pond. He accurately described the gassy pop-hiss of gunfire, the splash of rounds hitting water, the sharp crack of splintering balsa, and even the stream of frothy whitewater as one of the ships started pumping. He also mentioned that since there was too little wind to sail, the ships used motors for propulsion (although they could also sail). I have searched for info on these brave skippers, but no WWCC club members (or queens own, or SCBG members, for that matter) have heard of either the battlers or their club. As far as I can tell, all the Age of Sail needs to take off is a rulebook and some battlers.
Tug, something I've been meaning to ask, and be honest; does the wife know you're building a 1/96 scale battleship?? Or do operate under two of my favorite credo's: What she doesn't know can't hurt me. or it's easier to ask for forgiveness than permission??
LOL... for right now, she knows that I'm building detail parts for 1/96 and 1/144. Since I plan on selling my 1/144 Vanguard at some point, I'll be under her level of pain threshold. In any case, building the Yamato turrets and pieces parts (possibly termite armor) will absorb a bit of time and I'll get my ship built when I get it built. She had a lot of fun running around the North Carolina on our trip, which will work in my favor. And since I haven't cut wood on it yet (nor even for a few months), I can honestly let her think that I'm not building a 7'7" battleship... Yet. When I get ready, I'll tell her. It's all about timing, but you guys know that.
Neat. Seems to be just a theatrical "show" rather than a true battle. At least they are not using real ammo with all those people's unprotected eyes all around.
Katori- You posted: "I just remember playing Navyfield a while ago, and seeing the M Project cruiser. In Navyfield you can swap out for different guns, ammo, equipment, and engines, and when I first saw the M Pro (as they call it) it had 12x 5.9" guns in four triple turrets and a handful of torpedoes. I thought "Boy would I like to build that!" and then I looked up the real ship. 8x 5.9" guns in four double turrets, and 8 torpedoes. Sure it was faster, but I'd rather have the 12x guns and 32 knots than 8x guns and 35 knots. Darned computer games, getting my hopes up for nothing..." There might actually be hope. As a big-gunner, you guys are allowed Hypotheticals, correct? Well, I have read that the original design of the "group 2 Admiral Hippers" (Seydlitz, and Lutzow) were originally designed as 12 5.9" CLs. A little info about this can be found at: http://www.german-navy.de/kriegsmarine/ships/heavycruiser/lutzow/history.html Triple 5.9" turrets would just look so RIGHT on those ships. Mike D
