I've found this hobby a few days ago online via youtube and I have taken an interest in it. Its like robotwars but not the massive rebuild effort, money and time to fight again. and its on water where the fallen stay out of the way of battle. I've read the rules for a few different groups and the group that appears closest to me uses iir... and I find their rules a bit confusing in comparison to the way the others are layed out (the format and wording...maybe I would understand them better with more pictures and/or more experience in the hobby on my part). ***warning, the following are random thoughts that have been placed randomly to possibly be randomly answered by random people*** The group closest to me is the OntarioAttackForce using iir... I read locations from uxbridge to milton to bobcaygeon. Does anyone know where they regularly meet? Or if there are alternative locations to meet with one or more people to help get into the hobby? I live near the trent canal, does anyone know the rules for it? I could see the bb's being looked down apon, so I was thinking maybe the possibility of fish food being used instead(not sure how it would stand up to the canons)? I have never done anything remotely close to this and would like to take a peak at the innards and outards of others ships to gain an idea and perspective sometime during the winter. I plan to make everything myself, including the cannons. I also see a lot of mention about teams are made fairly based on *number of guns*. I think this would make it more interesting to have a few flowerclass protecting a convoy with attacking destroyers. I don't understand how submarines work in this game if they can fire from underwater. and if you did manage to do that, I could see a lot of frustrated opponents over it. Air craft carriers with the 1:144 appear to have airplanes that are non-existant. Even if you were able to make a flying craft of that size, it would never be able to do any sort of damage to enemy ships unless they had no control and you launched them with some mechanism that acted like a crossbow (but then there would be no control of the aircraft and it would be torpedo like...does sound feasable, I'm just not sure if its allowed). But never the less, very interesting hobby and wished to see mroe canadian vessels on the water. I think thats what I will focus on when I get to building to make up the void. (I'm interested in flower class, river class and cruisers). Especially flowerclass if they can be used like a pack a wolves to take down a destroyer or two . It think it has the means of being revolutionary in this hobby. I don't see much mention about radio control specifications. I'd be afraid of making something to only overtalk or undertalk with another unit. Also, does homedepot by chance carry balsa wood? Wheres the cheapest place to get it...Im kinda of a cheap guy and like to build things as cheaply as possible; especially since I have the capable means of solving problems combined with being handy in the tools area to do it...including the schooling that gives the ability to overcomplicate the simplist of basics. My downfall is experience and knowledge of the hobby with the tips and shortcuts. Thanks for reading my lengthy introduction and expect lots more questions and/or statements.
Hello there, I just started going to OAF (Ontario Attack Force) battles myself this summer. Our normal pond is in Milton, however the club has been trying a few other ponds (one in Stoney Creek, and one right by me in Uxbridge) as well. There are people from the OAF in Orillia, Peteborough, Uxbridge, Burlington (that I can think of off the top of my head). I'd suggest you go to the OAF site (http://ontarioattackforce.multiply.com), get a multiply account and start posting there. I'm sure if you are close to someone in the club, they'd be happy to help you out if you wanted. Generally destroyers aren't built because they are usually to small in 1:144 scale to get the guns & equipment into, so I don't think you'll see any flower class corvettes because of their size. I know of one person in the club who does have a Gearing class destroyer though, and even then you have to be very careful what you put into it, and how you build it. I would suggest you try a small battleship, battlecruiser, or heavy cruiser as your first boat. If you are intested I have plans for the HMCS Ontario/Quebec (Fiji/Swiftsure Class) light cruiser, I might be able to copy them if you want to come out to an OAF battle. Aircraft Carriers from what I understand are generally used as unarmed convoy ships, although I believe we do allow them to be armed now. They do not use aircraft in this hobby except for decoration on the boat. Home depot doesn't carry balsa wood, but they carry many things you will need like 1/4" plywood, glue, etc. Balsa is really only used for the penetrable hull skin areas. Have you ever built a model from scratch before? Hope to see you at a battle soon, Chase
Welcome to the hobby, and the site. Try to attend an event before the end of the year, so that you can meet the folks, and actually see some of the boats. The Flower class corvettes are very cool ships, although rather small. I am thinking that someone may have a fiberglass British cruiser hull that might be able to fly the Canadian flag. But I can't remember for sure. It is a Swiftsure class cruiser Ontario. So I am not sure I am correct about the fiberglass hull. Anyhow. Good luck. Mikey
Hi and welcome to the hobby. Start with an easy transport and learn how to build and how the systems work. Learn how to drive it and join a club. Have fun...that's what it is all about. Good luck! Steve
Where is the best place for these type of questions (just a couple off the top of my head): I will take the suggestion of the convoy ship first...I'm going to have to find something with a simple superstructure as the hull portion scares me the most and I would mainly want to use the convoy ship as practice for the hull manufacturing. 1. Confusion about the IRCW.. rules Talk about 1/4 battle unit, but I don't understand how you end up with a 1/4. Theres talk about class x and under being able to be split up into halves for cannons, but no mention about splitting up further into 1/4 The quadrant stuff is a bit confusing. A cannon can only rotate 15' from centerline...are turrets included in this?; if a turret can do more then 15' then is 1 turrent the equivilent to 3 quadrants looked after offensive power wise? If so the the bow turret and stern turret could overlap quadrants illegally? Viideos I see on the internet show lots of battles side by side, the 15' rule I am hoping is for fixed cannons. Why does one whole side of a ship (a quadrant) have to be left unprotected? I do not see the logic in that. When I think submarines, I would think they would follow the same hull designs as the ship...but what about the topside, should that be balsa as well, so ships can shoot down on it (would feel kinda cheap to have a semi impenetrable top when all it does is hides in the water)? I do not understand a lot of the terms used in the rules, especially abbreviations (ie. LOA -which I assume means length of ship, CLV, CLE, etc...) Is the deck can be made impenetrable; why have a regulation to have a fixed thickness? I assume a cannon is classified as each barrel. ie a turret could be 4 cannons 2. Stuff not mentioned in the rules or perhaps my eye didn't catch them What constitutes as a BB-able shooter? more specifically, if you have torpedoes like on a pt cruiser or submarine...do you use a cannon as replacement? What calibre of shell in real life constitutes as BB-able? Do you have to use a ship from the ships list or is the ships list pre-done math or exceptions? I think a PT cruiser would be fun to have if possible to build and can use cannons inplace of the real torpedoes, but I think under the rules it would make it the slowest ship (class 7) when in real life it was known for speed. 3. Building Assistance - as I have never done anything close to this before (ie, nothing to do with models, but I have done minor fibreglass repair on my canoe etc...) When I get to building a ship, if I post pictures of the steps along the way, can I expect comments in return to save from building something that can not be used because of some defect and/or misinterpretation of the regulations (I could see a scratch ship being a hobby killer in my view point) I see pictures on the web of steps people have taken, but usually they are cut short or skip details that I think are given for people to know. I'm having a bit of issues findout out what frequencies can and cannot be used. I read somewhere someone was talking about the 2.4ghz range not working well with submarines. basically, for me to plan the individual components for my radio control, I would like to know the frequency ranges are possible (ie. 900mhz, 2.4ghz, 5.8ghz, etc...) and how they are normally divided up (ie: channels or bandwidth per control, etc...). Is this what to use? only use? http://www.namba.com/content/radio_frequency.asp How sealed up do people make the deck (the more sealed the slower it sinks but purhaps it will reach a point of never sinking?) Could someone tell me the density or mass that their parts wheigh so I can plan my components better and/or know if I'm getting off track during the building process. 4. Stuff typically looked down apon but not mentioned I like doing things differently...makes it more exciting for me; At the same time I don't want to deter fun from other people. So I'm wondering what deters fun from other players on the water? ^I have a feeling submarines could leave that effect (surface, shoot, dive) ie. I know ramming is looked down apon and if I remember correctly, penalized. 5. General knowledge Whats considered tricky and the trickiest part in this hobby? (getting the plans, building with weight in mind, building in the confined spaces in the hull, having the vessel float upright, having the water line like in real life) How do people load the magazine? (thinking about how they limit the number of shots) Where can and can you not use your ships? (ie. if they have the cannons are they autmoatically not allowed to be used in public areas?) I realize this section can most likely be figured out when I get together with someone already taking part in this hobby
I can't help you with #1 or #2 much, since I am not in IRCWCC, but I think I can help with the rest. 3) if you post pictures in the Warship Builds section of the forum, everyone here will be glad to help you and advise you what to do and what not to do. However, all the online help in the world is not as good as one experienced builder in person, so if you can, try to meet in person with skippers near you as much as possible. For deck seals, it depends on what conditions you're facing. I don't really care about sealing my decks, but I on a pond, not a lake. Many people do like sealing their decks. Frequency-wise, if you want to play with submarines, you'll have to get a 75mhz radio. 2.4ghz is microwave, it gets blocked if there's even an inch of water between radio and receiver. I have heard rumors of 900mhz being developed for submarine use, but haven't heard anything definitive yet. Component mass is something we'll answer on an individual basis, once you start construction. There's a LOT of parts that go into a ship, and I don't think I can list them all right now. 4) things that take away the fun factor for me are unfair uses of technology, and totally one-sided battles. A few examples: many years ago, a lot of people in my local club used to buy pressure regulators with a big, easy-to-grab knob for adjusting the pressure setting. Apparently they had a few incidents with bbs shooting through metal blast shields, servos, and other stuff. By the time I joined, almost everyone had switched over to regulators that require a hex wrench to adjust, and such... questionable... incidents have disappeared. Another example: any form of automatic target tracking or ranging mechanism that removes the human factor from the accuracy equation. Computerized enhancements to human aiming, like the Morgret Command/Control System, aren't so bad, but you cannot sacrifice the human element from gunnery. One-sided battles: It really sucks when your team is getting totally thrashed by a vastly superior opponent, and there's nothing you can do about it. It's also not particularly fun when your opponent isn't putting up any sort of resistance. Well-balanced teams is a key factor in how much fun everyone has. Please note, however, that equal numbers of ships, guns, etc. isn't a guarantee of balance; skippers, reliability, teamwork, and a whole host of other factors must be considered. one example: we once had the two top merchant skippers face down every warship in the club. The transports almost won (just a few points short), and all the warship skippers had great fun NOT patching zillions of holes after the battle. Ramming is, in general, frowned upon, especially in Fast Gun clubs whose high speeds and thin armor make ram damage devastating. The practice is even frowned upon in most Big Gun clubs. However, my own local Big Gun club has a much more relaxed view: so long as you don't cause damage, a sink, or an uncorrectable list, bumping and pushing are perfectly fine. In fact, we have evolved the technique to a high art: a well-timed nudge in the right (or wrong) direction can spoil an otherwise fatal shot, prevent a ship from escaping, or even free a trapped ally from the dreaded lee shore. Even then, however, ramming as an offensive weapon is greatly frowned upon; Since you are interested in IRCWCC, I would advise you stay away from any sort of bow-to-broadside contact 5) what is the trickiest part of the hobby? That depends on the individual. Windrider, for example, admits he isn't a great at wiring a ship. I, on the other hand, suck at maintenance. I love building and battling, but replacing parts, cleaning cannons, lubricating motors, etc. drives me nuts. Other people are incredible battlers, but couldn't build a ship if their lives depended on it. it all depends on your own individual skills and preferences. Loading a magazine with a specific number of shots is very simple, if you know the diameter of the ammo. If, for example, you wanted to load exactly 50 bbs into your magazine, and your bbs were .177" diameter, you would use a loading tube whose length equals 50 times the diameter, .177", in other words you would use a loading tube 8.85 inches long. If, on the other hand, you wanted to load 50x 1/4" bbs, you would need a loading tube 12.5" long. Where can you use your ships? That depends on local rules. Clearly, you should only fire your cannons at home or at a club event, and follow all safety procedures, but if you're just sailing, you've got a lot more freedom. I sail my boats just about anywhere there's enough water to float. Alas, one local park does not permit R/C boats (apparently the noise of gas and nitro speedboats is disruptive to the fish, and they don't care that my ships are electric) but everywhere else they are an attraction. 6) submarines: it seems you have an interest in submarines in this hobby. I have seen several, and I plan to build one myself, in a few years. You also mentioned concerns about the fairness of subarines (surface-shoot-dive). In Fast Gun, this isn't a huge concern because 1) subs don't carry much firepower, and 2) only a single hit is fatal. In Big Gun, things get a little more interesting, because submarines pack a huge wallop of firepower. Fortunately, we also have... ways of dealing with them, so they aren't as scary as they might seem. Of course, the huge technical challenges still limit the number of subs on the water, so I'm not worried about subs taking over the pond any time soon.
Your questions are pretty intricate and difficult to answer with text. The best way to answer most of them is to show up to an event and talk with people in the hobby.
You should get the Intro DVD from here: http://www.mwci.org/mwcidvd.shtml It answers a lot of your questions.
1. Confusion about the IRCW.. rules Talk about 1/4 battle unit, but I don't understand how you end up with a 1/4. Theres talk about class x and under being able to be split up into halves for cannons, but no mention about splitting up further into 1/4. One Quarter is the smallest we have allowed a combat unit to be divided into (and then only in special cases, not normally) The quadrant stuff is a bit confusing. A cannon can only rotate 15' from centerline...are turrets included in this?; if a turret can do more then 15' then is 1 turrent the equivilent to 3 quadrants looked after offensive power wise? If so the the bow turret and stern turret could overlap quadrants illegally? Rotating turrets are not allowed to overrule the quadrant rule Viideos I see on the internet show lots of battles side by side, the 15' rule I am hoping is for fixed cannons. Side gun ships (larger than cruisers) often go side to side in an effort to get under the waterline hits. Why does one whole side of a ship (a quadrant) have to be left unprotected? I do not see the logic in that. Old rule supposed to allow an attacking ship some chance to get to the enemy ship. When I think submarines, I would think they would follow the same hull designs as the ship...but what about the topside, should that be balsa as well, so ships can shoot down on it (would feel kinda cheap to have a semi impenetrable top when all it does is hides in the water)? Subs can have hard decks, they have enough sides exposed that side guns can get to them. I do not understand a lot of the terms used in the rules, especially abbreviations (ie. LOA -which I assume means length of ship, CLV, CLE, etc...) Is the deck can be made impenetrable; why have a regulation to have a fixed thickness? LOA - lenght overall Deck thickness is applied at the side of the deck and allows enough thickness to have a deck, and subdeck. I assume a cannon is classified as each barrel. ie a turret could be 4 cannons a Cannon is one 50 shot gun (single barrel) 2. Stuff not mentioned in the rules or perhaps my eye didn't catch them What constitutes as a BB-able shooter? more specifically, if you have torpedoes like on a pt cruiser or submarine...do you use a cannon as replacement? torpedoes have no place in fast gun combat. What calibre of shell in real life constitutes as BB-able? ships are set up on the ship list as to what they can have. Do you have to use a ship from the ships list or is the ships list pre-done math or exceptions? If you find a legal ship that is not on the list, we will add it. look at list of classes for clasification. I think a PT cruiser would be fun to have if possible to build and can use cannons inplace of the real torpedoes, but I think under the rules it would make it the slowest ship (class 7) when in real life it was known for speed. what is a PT cruiser (you aren't talking about the car I suppose. 3. Building Assistance - as I have never done anything close to this before (ie, nothing to do with models, but I have done minor fibreglass repair on my canoe etc...) A combattant near you is helpful, as is advise from the combat lists. IRC has their own list on Yahoo. When I get to building a ship, if I post pictures of the steps along the way, can I expect comments in return to save from building something that can not be used because of some defect and/or misinterpretation of the regulations (I could see a scratch ship being a hobby killer in my view point) yes! I see pictures on the web of steps people have taken, but usually they are cut short or skip details that I think are given for people to know. I'm having a bit of issues findout out what frequencies can and cannot be used. I read somewhere someone was talking about the 2.4ghz range not working well with submarines. basically, for me to plan the individual components for my radio control, I would like to know the frequency ranges are possible (ie. 900mhz, 2.4ghz, 5.8ghz, etc...) and how they are normally divided up (ie: channels or bandwidth per control, etc...). Is this what to use? only use? http://www.namba.com/content/radio_frequency.asp Frequencies for combat are the same for any surface frequencies (27 Mhz, 75Mhz, 50 Mhz if a ham and any of the newer ghz). Higher frequencies will not penetrate water. How sealed up do people make the deck (the more sealed the slower it sinks but purhaps it will reach a point of never sinking?) By our rules ship must be able to sink! Could someone tell me the density or mass that their parts wheigh so I can plan my components better and/or know if I'm getting off track during the building process. Huh? 4. Stuff typically looked down apon but not mentioned I like doing things differently...makes it more exciting for me; At the same time I don't want to deter fun from other people. So I'm wondering what deters fun from other players on the water? ^I have a feeling submarines could leave that effect (surface, shoot, dive) ie. I know ramming is looked down apon and if I remember correctly, penalized. Yes 5. General knowledge Whats considered tricky and the trickiest part in this hobby? (getting the plans, building with weight in mind, building in the confined spaces in the hull, having the vessel float upright, having the water line like in real life) How do people load the magazine? (thinking about how they limit the number of shots) tube set to length is easiest Where can and can you not use your ships? (ie. if they have the cannons are they autmoatically not allowed to be used in public areas?) don't shoot in public areas I realize this section can most likely be figured out when I get together with someone already taking part in this hobby
Thank you for all your responses (I have read them all). I see the Ontario clan is getting together this sunday and I was wondering where it was taking place and if I would be allowed to stop by if I can? I would also like to know the best way to communicate with this group as a whole since it will most likely be the group I will be joining when I build my vessel. (which I hope my vessel construction begins and finishes this winter)
As I said earlier, go to http://ontarioattackforce.multiply.com, and get a multiply account. The easiest way to communicate with OAF members is on the OAF website there. I don't know if there will be a battle this sunday because of the Thanksgiving Holiday, most of us will probably be busy. There may be another battle this year, but nothing has been decided at this point yet. --Chase
You can still post messages in the guestbook on the main page, so maybe introduce yourself. Just be patient on the approval, our administrator for the site seems to be really busy lately and there may be a delay to it getting approved. --Chase
