New guy in New Jersey

I have to admit, I've been looking at these model warships since I was about 12 years old. Always thought they were some of the coolest things I've ever seen. Now that I'm a bit older and have a bit more money, I've been thinking about building one myself. I'm mechanically inclined (I've built two rock crawling trucks and worked on a few drag cars) and I enjoy building 1/350th scale model warships. I have no RC model experience, but I didn't have any car experience when I first started that either!

Anyone else local to the NJ area? Specifically, I'm in South Jersey, right around the Atlantic City area. Within an hour of Philly and 45 minutes away from Toms River. Would love to meet up with someone and check out what some of this magic looks like in real life. I have no idea what I want to build yet, but I guess what the locals have already will influence me in one direction or another.
For someone with as little experience as me, what would you guys recommend? I know there are a bunch of different kinds of rules, big gun, fast gun, etc, but what is more widespread in the east coast area? I have to admit that big gun with rotating turrets and the whole deal sounds cool as heck, but also overwhelming as heck.
Thanks for the guidance!
-Will

 

I'm up in Morris county. Glad to hear that you're looking to get involved with the hobby. I'd suggest looking into the fast gun side of the hobby as that is what most of the people in this area do and it always helps to have other people to battle. Winter is typically the "build" season for those out us up here in the cold areas of the country but there are occasional meeting and days that we get together to hang out and work on/talk boats. Not sure when one of those is coming up or where it will be but I would suggest joining the yahoo IRCWCC group's mailing list as that has most of the captains on the east coast.

There are a ton of suggestions for rookie boats (and plenty of threads on the topic) so I won't dive into it to much other than to say start thinking about if there is a specific side (axis or allied) that you'd rather start out on or if you have a specific boat in mind. In general Battlecruisers, WW1 battleships, and heavy cruisers tend to be good first ships.

There are a ton of threads here with good info (and plenty with bad info) but if you read through a few and get an idea of what kinds of questions to ask everyone on here is pretty good about helping rookies out. Of course everyone has their own way of doing stuff which may or may not be better than the next guy's, that's up to you to decide.

 

Thanks! I've been looking at different threads and such all over the internet. I really like the "Cheapest Point of Entry" build going on and think that's the way I'd like to go. Been reading up on that and thinking about applying the design process to a different hull, I'm just not a huge fan of the Armored Cruiser look. The question is...what hull??? How much of the design theory can be applied to a different design?
The girlfriend and best friend both are into modeling, so we're thinking of building this as a joint project between the three of us. Who knows, maybe when we're done we'll each decide we want our own!
I realize that building one from scratch is more complex, but with how Tugboat lays it out the process seems pretty manageable. Am I misguided in this approach?

 

You can build more or less any hull that way, but you're right determining what to build is the first step. Do you have a preference (axis or allied) for your first build? Axis is generally Germany, Japan, and Italy (however the Italians have been known to be a little flippy floppy). Allied is typically US,UK, French. (Frenchies say they are on either side so they flip flop). For a first ship something like a German Von Der Tann or an British I-Boat (ala HMS Invincible) are good ships, a lot of the WWI Battleships and battle cruisers tend to be good first boats.

You're not misguided in that building one like Tugboat is doing is a decent approach, however I'd advise that sometime being willing to spend some coin can get you on the water faster and let you have more fun once you're there than if you scratch build everything yourself. You can always rework systems and try your own designs once you have a season or two of battling under you and understand the game and systems better. For instance buying guns and a pump is probably worth the money for a rookie unless you're building in conjunction with a veteran captain. Building a hull and outfitting it with basic running gear (motors,props,rudder) well within the scope that most rookies can accomplish.

If you have a girl and a best friend that are interested you might as well build 3 boats, only one person can drive at a time....

 

This is true, only one person can drive. We just don't want to jump into 3 builds and then realize that we're in over our heads. Would rather build 1 from nothing to something, and then work on a second or third.
I've read a lot of different opinions on what is a "good" starting ship for a build up. I guess I'm looking for a ship thats around Heavy Cruiser-Small battleship/battlecruiser territory. Something with relatively easier lines that would lend itself well to being scratch built. Which side would depend on the local populace I guess, I have no real preference. Both sides have some very attractive ships. I wouldn't mind playing one of the "Flip-flop" nations, like Italy or France. Some of my favorite ships: Queen Elizabeth class, Admiral Hipper Class, Scarnhorst (WW2), Andrea Doria (WW2 Refit), and any number of US battleships. I also have a soft spot for the Frenchie battleships, but I'm not sure how well a all-front gun arrangement would lend itself to a beginner.
I'm of the mindest that by building everything myself (or at least the things that make sense. If it'll cost $30 to build a pump vs $32 for buying one, I'll buy one.) I'll be the expert on the invidual component systems of the unit. Reading through Tugboat's threads on building cannons and such, none of this seems above me, just things I've never done before. I've welded plate bumpers for trucks, fabricated my own steering systems, done electrical work, etc. Only thing I haven't done is solder pipe joints, but like I said there's a first time for it all.

 

Just my 2 cents worth, but if you can find a complete ship for sale, it'll have all the systems in it already.
This will allow you to use it as a learner boat, while copying the systems into two new hulls for the other members of your group.

As to the all-guns-forward arrangement? I sail a Nelson-class BB and it's not as bad as you might think, and on the one occasion I teamed with another Nelson, the combined firepower of the two ships kept even experienced skippers well clear.

 

That is good to hear...I can't tell you how much I like the look of the JB/Richie. Plus, the plans are freely available here on the site. Another possible contestant is the US Baltimore-Class CA's. Apparently there is a gentleman who sells laser-cut wooden kits to build your own, and also provides detailed superstructure/deck plans for a price I can justify.
What kind of stats would I be looking at with a Baltimore in fast-gun type rules? Would this be a legal kit to build up?
http://www.jenkse.us/rcengr/index_files/Page896.htm
Edit:
After doing some more research, I have found ship class/100ft speed for the Baltimore. This is from mwc's ship list.

Baltimore​

United States​

CA​

14​

673​

71​

13881​

17677​

13.26​

14.58​

6.0​

9 8.0 4 1 1943-45 3 23

3.5 ​

The last 3 are the guns/speed/class. I think a 3.5 unit ship, 3 guns and a .5 unit pump, would be a decent platform for a first buildup right? How difficult will it be to keep this ship within it's weight limit of 14.5lbs max?

 

Building a big battleship with only forward guns for your rookie ship is most likely going to end up a lot of sinks, I'm not saying that it can't be done just that it probably isnt the best idea for a rookie. Better to save something like that till ship #2 or 3.

A Baltimore is a rather good first ship, I'm pretty sure those laser cut kits have allowable ribs/spacing for fast gun, not a bad place to start. Keeping it under 14.5 lbs shouldn't be an issue, that is very doable. The traditional gun setup calls for a triple stern gun arrangement since you can't have sidemounts and bow guns are harder to use and tend to be less effective in general. And triple sterns is pretty heavy firepower. The only thing to double check is get on the IRCWCC list and make sure that the cruisers got pushed to 23 sec. (mwci did that a while ago and it makes a big difference in terms of playability, at 24 seconds cruisers are dog meat, at 23 they become a useful addition to the fleet.)

 

Ive noticed that most cruisers, light and heavy, run all rear guns. That's one of the reasons why I like the larger ships. What exactly are the rules regarding appropriate gun placement? I've read on mwc and such but there are no real "all inclusive" rulebooks. Is a sidemount any gun more than a certain degree off of the centerline? Could someone run a forward gun turned ever so slightly to clear the bow of a ship like the balti?

Sorry for the nooby questions.
Edit: I read some more, and according to MWC rules a ship's guns must be mounted within 15* of centerline to be considered legal unless on a ship with guns that can be fired to broadside. So I could run a forward, two sterns, or some combination of. I know the accepted "standard" is all sterns, but for some reason I have this thing about turning the rear of a ship towards the enemy. I guess years of naval wargames and video games have instilled that practice. Plus, could always juggle gun placement as time goes on right? The Baltimore is really growing on me.

 

MWC and IRCWCC rules are more or less the same(there are some differences but nothing we've talked about yet) and those are really the only fast gun versions out there so for gun placement and whatnot those rules will serve you well.

Yup, you get bow and/or stern guns on a cruiser. Most rookies that build cruisers (myself included) want to put a bow gun on it since it seems like that would be better than not having one. They often rearrange the guns after a few battles.(I did) but really it doe''nt matter, if you want a bow gun put one on, maybe you'll like it. The important thing is getting a ship on the water and learning how to battle and seeing what the hobby is all about. (it is completely different than naval war gaming and/or any video game) Most captains tend to build a ship and then battle it for a few years, during that time they rearrange stuff and tweak the systems to keep improving and making the boat better/more to their liking.

 

Snipe, I'll agree with you about the all guns forward not being for rookies..in fast gun. Fastgunners tend to prefer rear guns far more than forward cannon.
In big-gun however, it's not the case. My first armed ship was my HMS Rodney, and she's a real warhorse. She taught me to "watch my six" and has her fair share of victims, including a mighty Iowa.
For big-gun a JB/Rich with it's good speed is a formidable weapon, even in the hands of a rookie.
Since the new guy looks like going fastgun, I defer to your expertise in what works best for that format.

 

So I think I'm settled on building the Baltimore as my first ship. The girl and I will work on that together until we get to a point where she wants her own, and at that point she's thinking of following Tugboat's Edgar Quinet. She likes the older, AC/PDN look. To clarify, I'm going with fast gun because it seems like that is what is primarily played in my area. I still love the Richie, but I think that will wait until after I know what I'm doing. Seems like a lethal ship if you play it right, and I'm not of the experience to know how to play at all, let alone right
Are there any mailing lists (other than IRCWCC) that I should try to get on? Local clubs I should try to contact? Snipe, you're about 2.5 hrs north of me but that's not a problem. I'm used to traveling for hobbies, closest decent offroad park to take the truck is Rausch Creek up in PA and thats at least 3hrs. Girlfriend's family is out in Pittsburgh, so we make that drive multiple times a year.
I'd love to just meet some guys, see what projects are going on, etc. When tax money comes back I'll have to invest in that laser-cut Baltimore kit, and I'll go from there.

 

Right now the IRCWCC list on yahoo will be your best bet. I battle "locally" with the NYBG (New York Battle Group) who also has a group on yahoo but that is really just a subset of the main IRCWCC list. It is good to hear that you're used to traveling for hobbies as it is pretty standard to drive a few hours to get to a battle or a fellow battler even. We just had a get together at my place last weekend so I imagine it will be a month or so before we all get together again. Most of that stuff is announced on the list and may or may not get mentioned on here, that would be the best bet to meet and get to see some ships. Most of the time we meet in upstate NY (exits 18 & 21B on I-87N) as two of the guys live up that way and they have ponds we can battle on. There are a few guys in the philly area that are probably closer to you but they aren't on these forums as far as I know so the IRCWCC list would be better to contact them. The IRCWCC also has a lot of larger regional battles in Hagertown MD so there should be some good opportunities for battle within driving distance for you.

 

I'm peaking around the IRCWCC website right now, looking to get added to their mailing list. I see on their ship list/rules section that the Baltimore runs a 24 second speed, as opposed to the MWC's 23 second speed. This makes it the same speed as an Iowa/North Carolina. How badly does that throw a wrench into my plans? Doesn't seem like the Balti would last very long in a fight without the speed to run in, shoot, run away.
Edit: Profane misuse of proper there, they're, and their. Also, I saw that there was a proposal to change the rules, increasing the speed of CA's to 23s/100'. That would make a big difference in building the balti. Who would know for sure if this proposal was accepted?
Check the map, seems like I'm roughly 3.5 hrs away from that general area in NY (Exits 18-21ish). Not too far at all!

 

I'm 95% sure that the IRCWCC cruisers were made faster but can't recall for certain off the top of me head. I ask the question on the IRCWCC list and find out. If they didn't get the extra speed than it isn't worth building one and the recommendation goes back to something WW1ish. There are a few decent WW1 era PDNs that would be good first builds, make the girlfriend happy at the same time....

 

I can't for the life of me find a place to sign up for the IRCWCC mailing list. Do I need to join as a full member, pay the $10 or whatever, and then it'll show up? If so, I'm fine with that, just unsure as to what I need to do specifically. Everything on their site seems like its 2 years out of date.

 

Ah there we go! Applied to join. Thanks Nick for the link, I had googled it a few times and just kept getting the IRCWCC.org site that as you already stated is still living in 2011. Also applied for the New York guys, since it seems like they're not very far from me either. Man, perfect location, right in the middle of everything. Who would've thought??

 

The IRCWCC yahoo list just confirmed that cruisers got the speed bump so your Baltimore plans are safe.

There are a number of "good" pockets of the country to be in for this hobby, we've got a very good / active group around here but we're always looking for more!

 

Welcome aboard Will,
You are in a pretty good location between two active areas of battlers. We go north and south around you. Up here in NY we have three battle ponds, there is one in PA and one in MD so you are in the right location.
I always suggest a Maryland class as your first. It takes a beating well, is big enough to cram all the systems in and has enough guns and variety to keep your interest for a few years. I always hear people recommend the cruisers but this is a game of BATTLESHIPS! Always good to have one with a few side guns....
Iceman
NYBG Moderator