Working reference on a game day is a good time to look for distractions. So I thought up some rules modifications/points of consideration for incorporating predreadnoughts or a whole new sub-hobby that is only predreanoughts. Dates: 1890 to 1905 launch dates. If one member of a class falls in this range, the entire class is acceptable. Speeds: Extend the speed table downward to cover the slower ships. Armor: It seems to me that belt thickness can not be the only consideration. The armor composition has pretty much settled by this time but there were still a variety of types in use. It seems to me that we could base this on the armor types that the old Jane's Fighting ships used. Guns: Use the same caliber guide lines as we do currently. Perhaps with lower rates of fire. For example the big guns on HMS Victoria could only get of about a shot every 5 minutes. Not that a historical time scale should be used but that is an example of the slower fireing. Allow Ramming? Torpedoes: Scale down from 1/4" to reflect their reduced effectiveness? Also reduce effectiveness of pumps to reflect poorer damage control techniques. These would work for a 1/144 or 1/96 scale ships but I think the larger would be better as the ships of this period are smaller. Just random thoughts. J.
I wouldn't change the rate of fire, as some ships saw a marked increase in their rate of fire ovre the course of their lives (example: US predreads saw the rate of fire of the main guns go from once every 2 or 3 minutes to 2 or 3 times per minute, thru improved shell handling). This kind of change was why the superposed turrets of the Kearsage and Virginias went no further. The smoke and blast from the 8" gun firings (in the same turret) interfered with that of the 12", which wasn't an issue early on, but as 12" ROF increased, it became an issue. If we extend the speed table down, then I would say use the speeds slower than 22kts only in predreadnought-only battles, and let them all run at least 22kts in mixed battles. But in PDN-only battles, absolutely. Torps are fine. In real life, they had shite for range, just like ours do And, no ships of the line had massed batteries, just one or two in a given direction. Not a major ship-killer. I like the variable armor, but I don't know enough to generate a good table. I think pump-wise, as long as everyone is using the same basic technology, then the playing field is level. No one running an unfair advantage. I'd stay with the 1/96, keep it a sub-class of Battlestations. Just my random thoughts
The weapons and pump modifications I had just thrown in to make it more historically accurate. Comes more from a gaming mentality than anything. In this context they just make things more complex than they need to be. The armor I will work up based on Jane's Fighting Ships as I have the 1904-1905 volume. He has armor ratings that were to be used in the naval war game he also produced. It would be silly to have the 1890's Iowa have the same armor rating as the 1940's Iowa which you would get if you used just the thickness of the belt. Alternately I could try and find that table that rates the effectiveness of various types of armor. It can be done since others have done it. I am also thinking of a minimum speed of between 12 and 15 knots. j.
sounds very interesting, i've always been a huge fan of the predreads... especially the great white fleet!
Janes Fighting Ships of 1905-1906 gives grades of armor from aaaaa for 12" + of KNC armor to f for 4" of wrought iron. I will work up a conversion table. Should not be too hard.
where are you guys located again? i might be interested in coming to a battle or two if you start this up...
I live in Georgia. We (Battlestations guys) were planning a battle in Louisiana sometime this spring (I think).
hmm, a bit far just for a battle but if i'm ever in the area i'll be sure to try and make it to a battle! let me know how this goes..... now that i think about it you could put something in the scuttlebutt explaing your idea and seeing if anyone else is interested?
Right now we are a subgroup of a subgroup but once things get sorted out a bit more I'll write something up. I think my usual scuttlebut pieces will be on odd ships. First feature is on the Gangut!!!
All The Treaty group has been hosting multi-format events, where we invite captains from another format to battle in between our sorties. So far this year, it has been with the big-gun clubs. But as I am also interested in the 96th scale stuff as well, I am pretty sure that we will also put forward an invite to the Battlestations group next year to attend events with us. I have spoken to Bobo on this, so we can make this happen in Ohio, and also in Pa. I am not sure that either location would be more centrally located for anyone, but you can never have too many battle sites. At the same time. I am still looking forward to attending a Battlestations event, no matter where it is held. Mikey
With the French tendency to make some rather interesting designs you can be assured that the Dupuy de Lome is a prime candidate. I intend to focus mainly on ships that fall in the years that most people battle, but predread era ships will make their way in. J.
On sober consideration I have settled on this for the pre-dread rules mods. 1. Launched between 1890 and 1905. If one member of the class is in this time period then the whole class is predread. 2. Minimum speed is 15 knots. If battling in mixed company this is boosted to the normal 22 knots. 3. Pumps based on displacement as with the normal rules. 4. Guns and rof the same as normal rules. 5. Armor will be based on the table used in the 1905-1906 edition of Janes Fighting ships. I am trying to keep ships that are already in battlestations to not have to be reskinned to fight pre-dread. Hence the King Edward VII class ships keep the armor they would normally have. 6. Conway's All the Worlds Fighting Ships 1860-1905 is the definitive data source on all ships, save for the armor as stated above. 7. Construction, safety and scoring rules will be as the normal Battlestations rules. Expanded speed table coming soon. Armor will be incorporated in the ship stats listing. j.
I appreciate the new take on the rules. There are few enough Battlesations guys as yet to have an offshoot with different requirements
That is the conclusion that I came to as well. I am trying to make the overlap as seamless as possible. Speed is the only change really. Once the armor conversion is done that is.
Posted a pdf of the proposed rules modifications in the files section with the ship lists. Not much new in them but they are available for anyone who is interested. j.
