I looked through the forums a little and i didnt find a post about this so forgive me if someone brought this up already. While pondering what type of shipt I wanted to build the thought came to me that it would be interwesting to see a Man-O-War sail ship armed with cannons that could shoot BBs at each other and i was curious as to if anyone has done this. I know it is from another century than the ships that most of you guys use, but my wallet is a little light and windjammers are not as expensive as some of the ships that you all make mostly because you dont need a motor, but i was wondering if anyone has done this and had some pics or some plans and if any of you guys thought the idea to be practical. i think it would make for interesting battles considering the fact that the BBs could possibly penetrate the sails immobolizing the ship.
I think some guys have talked about it, think I've seen some molds/hulls laid up. Two items to note: 1) Motors are cheap 2) If youre angling your cannons to shoot sails, you'll also be more likely to shoot eachother in the face.
i didnt plan on angling the cannons, but if a ship leaned or road lower in the water than another the sails on one ship could possibly be penetrated.
I've been thinking about Age Of Sail combat for years, and I'm not the only one. There are a few things stopping me, however. Nick has already mentioned safety concerns. You do NOT want to be firing guns above horizontal, EVER. It's just a really bad idea. I've even got sketches of mechanisms that would disable the guns on a particular broadside, if the ship heels over too far. Other issues to consider: armament. Number of guns, and caliber. As a Big Gunner, I am not very thrilled at the idea of arming one or two guns per broadside. I wanna arm at least one gundeck, and at about $25/barrel for nonrotating guns, that adds up fast. Next question, what caliber to use? Do you differentiate based on size of shot, and if so, how? Carronades? explosive shell guns? Mortars? Chain shot vs grape shot vs canister vs double-shot, etc? Armor. Do you have it, and if so, how much? For a 1:48 scale HMS Victory, I believe I calculated that scale thickness of hull sides was 1/2" at the waterline. That's a lot of balsa. On the other hand, if you use 1/32, is that an appropriate material for a ship-of-the-line, as opposed to the lighter hull of a packet ship? era. How far back do you go, and how modern do you go? Are we talking galleys to galleons, schooners and pirate ships, or ACW steam frigates? What about other ships, like junks, turtle ships, and ironclads? propulsion. Do you depend entirely on wind, entirely on hidden thrusters/props, or a hybrid system? Do you allow drop keels to improve stability/sailing qualities? How do you determine allowed speeds from props/thrusters? What about controlling the sails? Do you allow improvised or modified rigs and/or masts? After investigating and evaluating for years, I eventually concluded that age-of-sail combat was not as practical as WWI-WWII era combat. If I want ships with tall masts, slow speed, and thundering broadsides, I would be best off building predreadnought battleships.
Some years ago, I purchased a 1/48 scale civil war ironclad combat ship from a website. On the site, the owner had many ironclads and even a couple of masted blockade runners that one could build. These ships could all be built supposedly for "combat" like we do with our ships. I was looking for the current site, but only found this for it: www.combatships.com However, I don't think he is in business anymore as when you go to it, it shows the picture of the blockade runner, but nothing more. I guess it was a good idea, but just never went anywhere. Go figure! Steve ;-{D
Ralph Coles has civil war era monitors, if you' re interrested. There are pics of them in the "For Sale" section in the "Hulls from Ralph Coles" Thread. J
Motors make up about $10 of a typical warship's approx. $1000 cost. On the other hand, how much time & trouble might one expend to get sails & rigging working to the same level of reliability & simplicity of electric motors & propellers?
I run sailboat and combat ships! Sure, we have talked about arming the sailboats but.... 1) each gun must be gimbled so that it can never point about about 5 degrees or it will be a great danger to onlookers! Sailboat lean a lot in wind. 2) Square rigged ships do not sail well! Fore and aft rigs are much better. 3) maintaining a sailing combat ship would be much more difficult than the motorized variaty. 4) I also built a civil war battle boat, the Choctaw in 1/48th scale and never battled it. 5) the current rule sets are the result of many years of teating and trial. 6) sailboats need balast, much if they are traditionsl hulls, my 58" sailboat carrys alomst 30 lbs. of balast, try picking up that plus the water inside off of the bottom.
I built two sail combat ships, but could never get anybody else interested in the format and gave up. We have some fairly large RC sail modeling clubs in the Detroit area. They want ready to sail models - few actually model. Anyhow, I'd drafted up totally new rules for sail combat taking the best of what was out there. For example scale can be anything. Just wind up with a model between x and x long. Mine are 48th scale - like 5.5ft long. Canon, arm up to original - your option - Big or Small Gun format. I came up with some factors to spec out sizes based on original sizes to those of Big Guns. Wasn't hard. Safety - Combat sail is no more dangerous than the WW2 version. You don't need to build elaborate leveling systems. It's simple - don't fire if the canon are tilted. I can't tell you how many WW2 models I have seen heeled over or sinking, canon clearly tilted up, yet the guy fired away, often hitting the trees. Uhh...don't fire...this one is easily addressed by rules. Next - too much wind or not enough making it difficult to play? Drop some sails and fire up the electric motor. Seems silly not to have a motor aboard with a hidden prop. It is more fun to sail though. There is a rather good book out by a guy in England on RC sail modeling. Sail controls can be simplified down to one or two gimbles. You can actually use the rudder channel for all if you like super simple. I agree with Marty, ya got'ta use lots of ballast with a sailing model. The ballast was one of the hardest things to arrive at to me - way harder than sail controls. Yes, most all sailing models will need a drop keel with a weight torpedo. Agree, it doesn't look scale, but who cares - it's underwater? Mine are 9-10 lbs and adjustable fore/aft. My models use Big Gun style floats to ease in recovery. The models don't weigh any more than a 144th scale WW2 BB model. We have lifted those from the depths many times. My sail model only sank so far in fairly shallow water. Well not sure what else to say.
put the gun on a gimbled stand like warspite said, and the "dont fire if the ship is sinking is unneeded. Also, I would go with big gun style format, and a specific (I'd say 48th is actually a good idea). also, the ships are designed not to tilt, just put a goog amount of ballast in it. and yes, square rigged ships dont roll to muck, whch is good. If u want a fore and aft rigged ship, build a sloop, but then the gimbles will really be needed.
