On May 19th and 20th, Western Warship Combat Club, based in the San Francisco Bay Area, presented 10 battles to a combined estimated crowd of 12,000 at the 2012 California Maker Faire. Each battle featured 7-9 warships, and 5-6 unarmed cargo ships. The Axis vs Allies fleet action was fought in a 40' x 72' x 20" deep pond built for the occasion. This year, the cargo ships were operated by captains chosen from the audience, and everyone had a blast! The action was streamed live from two different vantage points, and was captured in HD for eventual editing by a GoPro Hero camera, mounted on a turret dug into the peak of a scale volcanic island, and remotely operated from the pit area. Check www.westernwarshipcombat.com for new stills and videos as they become available. ANGRY BATTLESHIPS DRAW HUGE CROWD AT THE 2012 CALIFORNIA MAKER FAIRE
How many new rookies do you pick up from this event every year? With 12,000 people watching you'd think every year you'd pick up 10-20 new guys. That's only .2% of the spectators that start to battle. We're thinking about setting up at the KC Markers Faire but if new people don't show up what's the point. I've set up tables and had videos running are large model events, air shows, hobby stores and get very few new people out of it. I've never had 12,000 walk by.
We've gotten a few in the past, but last year, we didn't immediately gain any. This year, we've already gained 3, and we've only just begun to process the inquiry forms people filled out this year. Here's the difference: Last year, even though we had approximately 10,000 spectators watch us - literally standing in line for up to an hour to get a seat in the bleachers - no one ever asked them if they might like to give this hobby a try. We were an act - pure entertainment. We were so tired after building the pond and doing all of the multitude of tasks required to make the event happen that we simply had no energy left to "sell" RC warship combat. And selling - one on one - is required. Imagine that you go to a music concert, and although you may have fantasized that you would love to be in a band, and maybe even have the requisite talent and skills, it would never dawn on you that the band might actually be looking for someone just like you to join them. They don't ask, and you don't offer. So, after the concert, you file out with the rest of the audience. But suppose the lead singer had pointed straight at you, and asked you directly if you think you might have what it takes to become a member of the band, and if so, to please fill out a form to be called for an audition. Wouldn't you fill it out? How we have missed the mark - and I mean hobby-wide - is that while we may demonstrate how our ships work, and we may show videos, and we may have static displays, hand out printed materials, etc., etc., we don't strap a transmitter around their necks at these venues and say, "Let's see what you got." Talking about combat, showing videos, displaying ships, etc., is all fine and good, but until we get the prospective captain's hands on a radio, at the helm of a ship in combat, it's all just idle fantasy. If we get interested LOCAL people to give us their names, phone numbers and email addresses, and their opt-in to receive a monthly newsletter (or at least email announcements of upcoming events), that's a different story. This year, before or during each battle, I directly asked how many people had ever thought they might like to give our hobby a try. I got maybe 20 hands raised. I then invited them to come "backstage" to take a tour of the pit area once all gas was off, and to try operating an RC boat. In some cases, they got to drive a battleship (gas off, of course). But before entry into the pit area, each one had to fill out a form as described above. In addition to this, people who wanted to operate an unarmed cargo vessel in a battle could fill out a form, via smart phone or on paper, from which we chose locals. That's 55 local people who have now run a ship in one of our battles, plus another 100 we've given hands-on tours to after battles. How well we "convert" these prospects to active, competitive club members is a function of how carefully and thoroughly we follow up - but then, we have their phone numbers, and we are going to split them up among our captains who love to talk about our hobby, and personally invite them to our next event in June. At the event in June, we will have loaners there for them to operate, and I believe we will reach our goal of net 10% new, active, hard-core warship combat enthusiasts. We shall see if my take on this is on the money. Rob
I believe Rob is right about the getting the controls in the hands of prospective new people. I was lucky enough to be allowed to control a transport and let me tell you it was a blast!!! I think i may have set a record for being sunk the quickest using a completely functional good ship but thats besides the point. That experience has got me all set to kick my build into high gear once summer break comes around. Another point I think is important is the enthusiasm shown by the guys at the Fair when people (myself included) have questions. I asked a question and never did i get a blow off answer but rather an in depth answer which explained the process or how something works. I think when people see something interesting they might be into and then hear the people doing it so in to it and having fun they will be drawn to it.
I'll give my 2 cents on this. I think giving somone the opportunity to controll the boat at the Makers Fair was a huge step in getting people excited about the sport. Ive been trolling the site for almost 2 years now. Visited with Rob and yet i just cant find the time to get started. I think most new comers want to get into the sport with "Guns A blazin". All the sites ive read recommended to start off with a Transport , Its a good basis, but theres the thought and excitement of how can I sink somone. The Biggest hurdle I found is trying to find all the information in 1 place. There is everything you need on this website. you just have to find it. And that takes alot of reading time. Compiling all the information that somone needs to get started , like how you build a Cannon, how to wire your boat. Best betteries to use. Servos , motors The list goes on and on . Drawing and Diagrams stickied as the first post under construction , weapons , radios etc for ease of finding. That's going to require alot of man hours to put together and with techninology is always changing from what I've read .so I dont see this coming to fruition. Gatta Run my sons Bday party I'll finish this later. Just my 2 cents from somoen who really wants to get a boat started Phil
Congrats on a successful event guys. Looks like it was a lot of fun and hard work but every bit worth it to promote the hobby.
Have to disagree with the transport advice. This hobby is all about "combat", not being a target. Definitely need to hook up with an experienced battler for advice and guidance, but the best 1st ship suggestion today is the same as the best 1st ship suggestion I got almost 20 years ago: a large cruiser or battlecruiser. It has all the combat systems, but not large amounts of guns. The cost (because of the above) is reasonable.The hull is fairly roomy for the amount of stuff that needs to go in. And the new guy is able to fully participate and feel the thrill of engaging in COMBAT, rather than being a target. Pick a ship that is offered by Battlers Connection or Strike and have at it! Best 1st Ship: Lutzow Von der Tann Cleveland Northampton Invincible Disclaimer: I'm referring to my experience in fast gun. Big gun milage may differ
Let's break it down, Jeff. Just judging by what you're saying, you're a Fast Gun enthusiast. I should have clarified that this whole thread I started here is focused on Big Gun RC warship combat, which is a different game than the one you play. in Big Gun combat, a transport is not a target: it is the means by which the Axis or Allied fleet can win or lose the battle. Some clubs only count successful cargo runs when scoring, since that is how WWI and WWII were won or lost - not by having the biggest, fastest or most powerful battleships or battlecruisers. In our game. when new people come to the pond to get a feel for combat, they are just as excited to run a cargo ship to gain cargo points for their team as they are later on in the development of their hobby when they graduate to bigger and more complex warships. Going further, in Big Gun combat, there is no actual advantage to building a battlecruiser, since it has the size and armament of a battleship, but not the armor thickness. But even a Lutzow, a ship I really enjoy campaigning, needs to be armed to the teeth in order to gain respect on the pond, and that means two triple rotating turrets and two banks of triple torpedoes, plus one pump, all packed into a cruiser's hull. It's not a good first ship in Big Gun. Here's something I think you would have to agree with, no matter what flavor of RC warship combat you're involved in: For recruitment and retention in a club, it is better to get someone onto the pond and into combat in a reliable ship, the quickest way possible, than it is to have the "perfect" first ship. And to be honest, we don't have reliable, armed warships sitting on a table at pondside, ready and waiting for a first-time new guy to try out in battle. It's just not practical. But at Maker Faire, we had 8 such transports, and if you had seen the absolute adrenalin rush on these first-time captains' faces, you would have been amazed. Just food for thought. Rob
Running a loaner transport is a great way to get people captaining and in the fray, it might not be as fun to run as an armed warship, but a club can keep more hulls ready to run by having those. Our local Treaty battles generally include at least one loaner warship. That's is great if you only have a small number of interested parties, but with the about of interest you had, and the number of volunteers from the crowd, transports are the way to go. If a recruit comes to a WWCC battle later in the year, they may be able to run a loaner warship, but I would think they are more likely to come visit a regular battle it they have already gotten their feet wet. An great event from the reports I have seen and I hope you can get several new members out of it.
In my local club we have a couple of unarmed warships we use as loaners, both SoDak hulls that were, for various reasons, retired from service as active, armed warships. It would have been a shame to scrap them, so we retained them as loaners, with greatly oversized pumps and simple two-channel radios. They allow visitors to run at warship speeds and are resilient enough to take a few salvos without immediately sinking. They also give our more bloodthirsty skippers something to shoot at on club days without the burden of recovering a sunken fully-armed warship.
What we're talking about right now is building 6-8 slab-sided transports, identical (except for paint scheme), and essentially waterproof and bullet proof except for a retangular open strip running the legth of the fuselage in the penetrable area, with the opening covered in tape and painted. These would be loaners to the extent that a new member could take one home to get to understand the fundamentals, take it to a local model boating lake or pond in between battles to practice sailing it, and bring it to our events, all charged and ready to go. He could use it as his own while choosing and building a warship. We do loan out warships, though, but for our gunnery & maneuvering events. Rob
Loaner warships are an amazing thing. Someone loaned me a KGV to match my brother's Scharnhorst back in 2005, and I've swapped ships with a couple captains to get a wider breadth of experience. Then there was a particularly awesome French pre-dread that Kotori and I were allowed to use at the SAS battle recently: my first actual combat in fast gun (gave me some great encouragement on my I-boat, if only I could free up the time to work on it). That said, they aren't nearly as common as loaner transports. Any loaner ship is enough to get another captain on the water, either a recruit or a captain whose boat broke down. Every single new recruit to the WWCC in the last four or five years has borrowed a transport for their first combat, and many were even given the chance to take that ship home while they started working on their own warship. I also enjoy the game play element that transports add. Attacking and defending transports adds a strong sense of purpose to my actions, and a greater feeling of reward when the transport limps home safe and sound or slips beneath the waves. A club with nothing but transports is not a combat club, and I still seek out and hunt specific warships just because I think they'll be fun to fight, but I enjoy what transports do. I often fly bombers in Rise of Flight for the same reason: other pilots enjoy the challenge of escorting or attacking, new pilots or pilots who were shot down can jump into the gunner seats, and I find the flight to be very relaxing.
Rob, I have been a member of the MABG for a little over a year. I found the group and drove 3 hours to see a target practice event. I wanted to be on of the Big Gunners and I wanted to be on the waters with the rest of the members. The problem was no ship. Everyone recommend that I build an unarmed transport / tanker. So I bought a set of plans from Strike Models for USS Cimarron (AO-22). I was very enthusiastic to build my first ship. Unfortunately there were not any members that lived near me. So when I tried building scratch building the hull, (X3), it was a miserable failure. After 8 months of life without a ship, I decided to purchase the Arizona kit from Strike Models. It took a little over a month to ship. While I was waiting for my first hull, an Iowa class hull was put up for sale for $40.00. So I purchased that hull also. I started building both ships concurrently. I have enjoyed the entire build process and look forward to having a fully certified ship by the end of July. The show stoppers that I have found. For new people trying to enter the hobby, there is not an easy way to get onto the water. If clubs had a pool of loaner ships, something either in the transport area or pocket type battleships like Admiral Sheer / Admiral Graf Spee that would entice new activity and membership. To me the big show stopper is the lack of availability of Big Gun cannons. It is easy to say build your own, but if you do not have access to or own a mill and a lathe and more importantly the skills / knowledge then that is not a reasonable expectation. The only reason that I will be able to complete my Iowa class hull are because of the efforts of our Club President, Brian. He went well above and beyond the call looking all over the country including down to Australia to find a set of cannons for me. Ken
Hi Ken, Your post illustrates what I believe to be the number one problem in the RC warship hobby in general, and Big Gun in particular: there simply aren't enough of us. There aren't enough people to justify gearing up and manufacturing complete kits and guns in the quantities that would keep these products on the shelves, or even to warrant the R&D necessary to perfect the designs that would lend themselves to mass-production. There may never be enough of us to change that, but I believe that the answer is public recruitment in major efforts, wherever clubs - or even a couple of people interested in starting a club - currently exist. If there is a larger pool of captains, there are going to be machinists in the group - or those with connections to machinests - who can build guns on the local level. The plans for Indiana rotating guns are available from Strike Models. True, it's not immediately going to solve the parts availability on a national or International level, but it will help the hobby grow locally and regionally - the first step. One of the people who came to Maker Faire this year is interested in starting a Big Gun branch of Western Warship Combat Club in the Los Angeles area. We already have a former battleship captain living there who had to relocate for business reasons, and there are a few members of the defunct South Coast Battle Group in the area who are still interested in the hobby. That sounds like a good nucleus. If we send a few transports down there, suddenly you have 7 or 8 ships on the pond, and that attracts potential recruits. A word about Maker Faire: Our combat event is one of the chief attractions of the California Maker Faire. It's 100% DIY, and fits right in with the sometimes wacky, but always unique hands-on activity Maker Faire is about. Because of its popularity, Maker Faire funds our event. Our club did not have to pay a cent for materials, hardware, paint, etc. We did have to supply a whole lot of sweat equity, though. Even if you have only a few people in your club, you can put on a mini Maker Faire one-day event in your area. Maker Faire materials and promotional literature, buttons, banners, Internet ads, etc., will be available to you. On the RC warship side of things, you may not be able to have a battle, but you can build a tank of water using the same methods we used to build our pond, and put on target shooting demonstrations. I'll help any way I can. My point is, RC warship combat has already been established as a prime draw at Maker Faire events, and it would be easy to ride that success to build up a club anywhere. Maker Faire events, both the mini and full-size versions, are spreading all over the world. Something to think about. Rob
What ever happend to kids Birthday parties at the park? 300$ for 14 kids to play on air filled slides in a Warehouse, Im not doin that again! I agree Ken, How can we get people involved failry quickly? 1. Cant build the ship without a plan. Compile every ship plan that clubs currently have and load them on the website for people to download. Ive noticed some plans are only available to members only. Some members have gone to great lenghts to find plans sharing that information will help everyone. 2. More hulls that are premade. Therse not a whole lot out there that somone can buy off the shelf and get stared with. Making the hull from scratch is time consuming . 3. Cannons are still evolving . Share your ideas and thoughts , hell i know ive asked some dumb questions. But I had to ask. There has to be an easy way for the average Joe to make a Cannon/ Torpedo system with simple tools. (safely) Phil
Rob, I have been thinking about this series of issues for over 6 months. In the real world, I have fully retired (great financial planning) and have nothing but time on my hands. For MABG, there has been a club-boat (complete Pennsylvania class battleship with cannons) that has sat in box. I am going to build this ship and donate one of my own for use by new members that are committed to joining the hobby (group will determine the criteria). While I am building the BB, I will also do two concurrent builds of unarmed transports / oilers for use by the novice future captains at club events. With regard to cannons, I have a friend who is a professional machinist. I have sent him a set of plans and he is going to build 3 prototype cannons to be evaluated by our clubs technical officer to ensure that these cannons meet all Big Gun requirements especially safety. We will see where it goes from there. I was in the Navy for almost 30 years. I used to go nuts, especially before I retired because trend was that people would sit and b@#ch and complain and do nothing. I am an engineer with a background as an electronics technician, and within my mind and my profession I always loved solving problems. I am certainly not the savior of Big Guns as a hobby. But I have the energy and the willingness to get involved. It is not enough to sit on the sidelines, people have to be willing to pitch in or the problem never gets solved. Thanks for the concern Rob. I wish that we did not have 3000 miles between our groups. Ken "Off the Box"
Phil, I don't think that hulls are an issue. I know that you could go to Battler's Connection or Strike Models and pick up relativily inexpensive hulls. Mark, rceng, has some beautiful laser cut hull for under $100.00 and if I were a fast gunner, his hulls would have been my first purchase refer to the link Lasercut Baltimore Cruiser Kits for sale. Group involvement and mentorship of new members help them the maintain there excitment about entering the hobby. Once they get into a real battle, then I believe that the individual is hooked. It is just getting to that point, that I think we are having issues with. Cannons, I don't have a solid solution, but am willing to work towards finding one. Ken
