From the Shinano discussion on the Yamato build thread it seems that there is some who take issue with the stats given in Conway's All the Worlds Fighting ships. I myself find it lacking (on rudders especially) As the some what self appointed keeper of the lists I am willing to make changes to use other more authoritative sources. Primary source material is best. AoTS books are just as good. Sorry I don't consider wikipedia as a good source. What other books should be considered "canon"? Now that the lists are mostly done it is no problem to add single entries here and there. "We're all one big happy fleet"
AOTS is canon, I agree. The French Navy's historical section where I get the plans that I clean up and scale for your enjoyment is canon, if only because they're the shipyard plans, scanned in. Some minor inaccuracies can creep in (rarely), due to the Frogs making post-war improvements to the ship and changing the plans. Only seen that on one or two ships, though. Not on any popular ones. -Lacroix&Wells "Japanese Cruisers of the Pacific War" -Friedman's "U.S. Cruisers" and other books in that series (BBs, Subs, etc) -Koop&Schmolke's "Pocket Battleships of the Deutschland class" -Jenkins' "A History of the French Navy" Not quite canon but darn close: -Dull's "Battle History of the Imperial Japanese Navy" I thought it was canonical, but have in the second reading found some missing pieces (notably no mention of Shinano). It _is_ very good, though. The author did his research in the vast USN microfiched archives of the original Japanese documents, so it's a good history (and reference) from an IJN angle. -Conway's books are on this list, as well. Minor nitpicks, but overall very good references. I have many other books on the shelf, but those are my list.
I think we can add Koop & Schmolke's other books in that series as well. What is the opinion of that old warhorse Jane's Fighting Ships? Or Jenschura, Jung and Mickel's "Warships of the Imperial Japanese Navy 1869-1945"? The French Navy plans are of course canonical as they are primary sources. Or at least close enough that no one should quibble.
Jane's is pretty well worthless, it is full of wartime propaganda. Garzke & Dulin are good. (some info in there on Shinano)
I agree on Jane's... The new ones are great, the old ones, not so much. Garzke & Dulin? What's the title? (I hate to think that I don't have every one that covers Japanese ships!
First of all, I consider any original builder's plans of the correct date to be canon. I also include the AToS series as canon. I agree wholeheartedly with the list TugBoat gave as canon. I also endorse as canon Jenschura, Jung and Mickel's Warships of the Imperial Japanese Navy 1869-1945. I would add to this list The Imperial Japanese Navy by Gordon and Watts. The Garzke and Dulin book mentioned by Specialist is Battleships: Axis and Neutral Battleships in World War II. I don't have a copy of this particular book, but have seen others quote it. No book is perfect. In general, though, I would consider Conway's the most comprehensive source, and think it should be the 1st source to be quoted. But I agree that these other canon sources can be used to correct Conway's. Carl
The discussion about Shinano's air complement on the IJN ships website (Visit this site) includes details of Garzke and Dulin on Shinano... Carl
Mark, All the Japanese sources I have say she carried 16 12.7cm HA guns. These are the 5"/40 DP guns in twin mounts. They also list her with 145 25mm/60 AA guns (36 triple mounts, 37 single mounts) and 336 5" rockets in 12 mounts of 28 tubes each. Some of my sources don't list the rockets, but those that do always match. This is consistant enough across my Japanese sources (and Conway's) that I didn't bother posting this question on the IJN ships message board. Carl
So we have good sources on the USN, IJN, and MN. What about the others? I can't believe that there are sources lacking for the Royal Navy. Italy and Russia? For the latter I would nominate McLaughlin's (I may have the author's name wrong) "Russian and Soviet Battleships". What of the Hochseeflotte?
Another comprehensive reference is Siegfried Breyer's Battleships and Battle Cruisers 1905 - 1970. For the Kriegsmarine, the Vom Original Zum Model series of books are widely regarded for their accuracy. For the British, there's British Warships of the Second World War, part of the Blueprint Series by John Roberts (of AToS). This shows photos of original builder's prints and include the reference numbers for finding them in the British archives. There is also the awesome 4 volume series The Design and Construction of British Warships, 1939 - 1945, The Official Record by D.K. Brown. The four volumes are: Major Surface Warships, Vol. 1 Submarines, Escort and Coastal Vessels, Vol. 2 Amphibious Warfare Vessels/Auxilliaries, Vol. 3 Landing Craft and Auxilliary Vessels, Vol 4 These show also show photos of original prints, and I think included the reference number for looking these up in the British Archives. Carl
Those are good RN sources, if chronologically limited. Anything more Grand Fleet oriented? My bias is towards the Great War you understand. []
John Roberts also did a book called Battlecruisers, which included WWI ships (in fact, it was more geared toward WWI than WWII). It included blueprints of the BC Queen Mary, folded up in a pocket in the back cover. I don't have many WWI references, so that's about the limit of my help, I'm afraid! [] Carl
Here's another source w/WWI info that I forgot about: Erich Groner's German Warships 1815 - 1945, Volume One: Major Surface Vessels. Mine is the latest version, revised and expanded by Dieter Jung and Martin Maass. I'm not sure how many volumes are in the series, but it seems to be as comprehensive as Conway's, but dedicated to the German navies. Carl
I have that edition of Groener and it is excellent. I thought about using his information on the speed of the HSF Battlecruisers. Groener worked from the primary sources when he wrote the series so it should be quite authoritative.
