Mikey and I were working on our destroyers when i asked what my speed would be.He could not remember the formula for big gun speeds. Then I got to thinking which is always dangerous. In treaty we us a 30 knots =30 seconds rule it work well.So I started thinking again,and laid out a grid with 33knots =33 seconds.A fast destroyer at 40 kts would be 26 seconds. A standard cruiser would of course be 33 seconds. minumum warship speed would be 24 kts= 42 seconds. And convoy would be 46 seconds. verry comperable to big gun but a lot easier to figure out without math degree. Please kick this around,throw it against the wall and see if it sticks. BY the way I have a Russian Taskent destroyer 44kts and an Emile Bertan 40kts on the slipway to challenge the strassberg in the spring
We have speeds listed in the ship lists. In the files section, New Battlestations Shiplists. I have not done the Russians yet. That being said, nothing is "official" yet so this system is as good as any other. Currently minimum speed is 21 knots = 51 seconds.
51sec? Sooooooo ..... sllloooooowwww .... AAaaaaarrrrmmmm phooootooooonnnn tooooorrrpppEEEEEdooooeesss
The Big Gun speed chart is based on the formula ship designers use for calculating scale speeds for their hydrodynamic testing models. It's called Dynamic Similitude Speed, or DSS. The advantage to using DSS is that when your ship is going at scale 25 knots, the bow wave and other hydrodynamic thingummies look correct. In addition, the scale is linear: a 40 knot boat literally covers twice as much distance as a 20 knot boat. The same does NOT hold true for any of the Fast Gun speed charts, including the Treaty speed chart. The downside is that you need to do a little math, or look at a chart, to know what speed you're supposed to go. The formula is: DSS = speed * SQRT(scale) an example, 25 knots in 1/144 DSS: 25 kts * SQRT(1/144) = 25 kts * 1/12 = 2.0833 kts = 3.516 ft/s = 28.4 seconds per 100 feet The big gun speed chart is actually 63.1% of 1/144 scale DSS. The same speed would be 50.8% of 1/96 scale DSS. Big Gun speed = historical speed * 0.631 * SQRT(1/144) Battlestations speed = historical speed * 0.508 * SQRT(1/96) However, you really don't have to do all that fancy math if you work in Metric. It turns out that 1/10 KPH is very close to 1 Big Gun scale knot. In fact it's so close that you can say they are practically the same. So rather than looking at your stopwatch and 100-foot course, and thinking "now how many seconds is that again?", you can just bust out your radar gun, set it to KPH, and drop the decimal point. For example, a reading of 2.5 equals 25 scale knots, and 3.2 equals 32 scale knots.
If your speed is too slow you will have problems with wind. Somewhere around 40 seconds boats can't make headway against a good wind- depending of course on amount of suppersturcture and such. It just seams silly to have a warship blown about by a little wind. Why not use the DSS speed thing, but use the full correct scale speed at 1/96 scale? This way you get the full effect of bow waves, and you ship looks like the real thing when moving though the water.
Some thoughts on speed and scaled ships ... If ship speeds are slow, will that effect how long a battle will run? I.E. slow ships = 2 hr battles vs fast ships = 1 hr battles? I play in MWCI, where our average regional sortie probably lasts about 30 minutes on average. Would that change if we slowed down the ships? I kinda like a faster pace to prevent boredom ... call it ADD. Do we really need scale bow waves? Most ships I have seen tend to be rather sparse on scale details. Heh. Coming from a model aircraft world, I've seen lots of debates about scale speed for model aircraft. A perfectly scale speed is simply too slow for most model airplanes to fly! Most of the time, a compromise is reached between scale speed, flyability, and presentation. Basically, if the looks like it is flying at a "scale" speed, then that is acceptable. That speed is normally faster than true scale speed. Lastly, there is a lot of discussion on speed. What about manuvering/turning? If true scale is desired, then why not take the extra step and start measuring how quickly a ship can turn. Did the real ship turn that fast? (this last part is tongue in cheek folks!)
All the Big Gun clubs have been battling with this speed chart since before I was born. I haven't seen much issue with the wind since I've been playing. Back when the WWCC was first founded, transports had to sail at 8 knots, and could still complete their course. So it really isn't a problem. On the plus side, you don't need as powerful motors or massive batteries for ships. For many 1/144 battleships a 15 amp ESC is sufficient for when all four motors are stalled (as opposed to drawing 70+ amps per motor at stall). You can save money on cheaper motors and ESC's and devote more weight and space to cannons and CO2. Another benefit is that ram damage will virtually disappear. I have seen the BLT get run over and one cruiser with a non-scale bow put a hole in the medium armor of a battlecruiser, but there are no other instances of ships getting ram damage in the last 4 years at the WWCC, but that is less than .1% of all the pushing, bumping, collisions, and other physical contact between ships. We don't care about ramming because it doesn't cause any real damage. I personally think that those two advantages far outweigh the minor influence of the wind.
I sort of like it when destroyers can actualy get the bone in their teeth. And you are not going to get that cruising around at a scale 18 knots.
The 1/96 boats are 50% larger than the gig gun boats. I know we cant go 50% faster but we must go faster than the big gun boats.That is why I sugested we use a 33 sec= 33knots.This will put the slow boats in the low to mid 40's not the 50's.At high speeds it will put the mogadore in the 19 range which will definatly throw a bow wake and is 3 seconds faster than small gun.The average cruiser at 33 sec will look good and maneuver well.If minumum warship speed is held at 24 kts they can still turn and buck the wind. Just my thoughts
Do it the treaty way? 1 knot = 1 second +/- 33 seconds? It will really simplify the speed calculations.
It does seem to fit all needs and since we went to 30=30 in treaty ,there have been no questions on what is my speed. No calculator or math degree needed, just conways and your fingers and toes for some ships
My experience has been that no math is necessary. At the beginning of each battle day, we take out a radar gun and check each ship. The chart is taped on the radar gun, so the skipper simply tells the speed checker what speed he is aiming for and drives at the gun. The speed checker then looks it up on the chart and tells him if he is legal or not, no arithmetic required. In fact, since we discovered that .1KPH = 1kt checking has been even easier. The radar gun is so convenient and easy, now I'm curious how everyone else measures speed. Do you use a 100' course, or a speed trap of some sort?
My understanding of radar guns is that the margin of error is too large to measure speeds for RC combat. Also most of the models I have seen, the minimum speed they will measure is too large. What brand/model are you guys using that works?
In WWCC (1:144 Big Gun combat club in California), we use my Stalker Pro, specifically designed and engineered for professional sports to accurately read speeds on small, fast-moving objects, such as baseballs and golf balls: http://www.stalkerradar.com/sports_pro.shtml The price ($1,495.99) and specs have remained essentially the same since we bought it in the 90s for measuring the speed of our giant scale Reno race planes: SPECIFICATIONS Accuracy: +/- 0.1 MPH Speed Range: 1-300 MPH Target Acquisition Time: 0.01 Seconds Microwave System: Ka Band, 20 mw Weight: 3.0 Pounds Display Units: MPH, KPH and Knots Data Output: TTL Format Warranty: 3 Years Parts and Labor, Battery (NiMH) 90 days Maximum Range (Est.): Passenger Cars 6000 Feet Plus Snowmobiles 2200 Feet Watercraft 1300 Feet Baseballs 400 - 450 Feet There are cheaper guns available (for example, the Stalker Sport for $995: http://www.baseballtips.com/stalkerradar.html ) but I don't know of any with the reputation, accuracy and specs of the Stalker Pro. Just a couple of tips when looking at radar guns for RC warship combat: * Make sure it measures speeds as slow as one mph, at the minimum. Most guns won't measure anything slower than 5 mph (even the Stalker Sport has this limitation). That's too fast for our purposes, since our speeds range from one to less than three knots. * Make sure it is accurate to +/- 0.1 MPH at the very least. (+/- 0.01 MPH would be ideal) * Make sure it has a Target Acquisition Time of 0.01 Seconds or less Rob
