Unusual Ships

There have been a lot of unusual ships that different countries have designed over the years, to meet any host of particular functions or missions...

Some designs, like the dreadnought, were well known and very successful. Others are less well known.

This thread is dedicated to those vessels that have stepped away from the typical boundaries & whether successful or not... Were different.

 

I will start off the thread with the I-400 class submarine... This boat was actually a submersable aircraft carrier! Sure, it could only carry 3 Aichi M6A Seiran aircraft; but even still what an achievement!

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Other ships of this type:

• HMS M2 (experimental)
  
• French Surcouf (active duty)
  
• American Underseacarrier S-1 (cancelled)
  
• Italian Ettore Fieramosca (cancelled)
  
• Japanese B1 & AM (active duty)
  
• German Type XI (canceled)
  

Brittish M2

 

Image Posted By JustinScott

How about the circular battleships?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_battleship_Novgorod

Someone even built an armed model.

http://ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/BigGunsModelWarship/photos/view/1e91?b=1
http://ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/BigGunsModelWarship/photos/view/1e91?b=2
http://ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/BigGunsModelWarship/photos/view/1e91?b=3

 

Awesome... perfect example!

Its funny the wiki site says that (off axis) shots fired would induce a rotation on the ship! hahah!

 

[In our Club NABS we have many odd ships. Mostly built by one member. We had a I-400 but it's first and last combat debut was not successful. It was defeated by the Lutzow.It had issues with stability and diving ability. The gun worked fine though. Next was the British Monitors such as the HMS Terror and the HMS Roberts. Both extremely maneuverable, very slow and only 1 Bow gun. Not seaworthy and easy to sink but not easy to hit. Then we had the HMS Courageous, very long narrow under gunned combat ship. With just 2 Turrets it was not a very good combat ship,not the most maneuverable but it was quite surprisingly seaworthy.We had a small battleship called the Gorgon, that boat was weird say to least. Looking at it bow on looked like you were looking at the stern because of the way the main mast tripod was setup. The ship had turrets on the centerline and had a single cannon in the stern. It was extremely maneuverable, zippy for it's size but seaworthy. It defeated a VU and in a grudge match it nearly beat it again narrowly being sunk itself but it made it. A nasty little boat. a squadron of these would chew up a Yamato or Bismarck in no time given the right circumstances.


quote]Originally posted by JustinScott

Awesome... perfect example!

Its funny the wiki site says that (off axis) shots fired would induce a rotation on the ship! hahah!
[/quote]

 

We had an I-400 built by a member. I dived decently but the main problem was stability when it made a turn. Some ballast issues. It fought the Lutzow and was defeated. Captain had to pull out. The Lutzow did hit the conning tower with a BB but no hull penetrations.
We had a Surcouf but it was never made operational.

 

We have a Surcouf hulls here. A guy locally makes them. He may still have his or he may still have the plans. He just joined this forum, his name is Steven Hill

 

Get him on this thread to post some of his pix!

 

As the builder of all but a couple of the unusual ships in the NABS fleet since 1996 I should elaborate on Curt's Post. Fisrt, the monitors:

1) HMS Terror (1996) - 2.0 units

This was my second version of the Terror, a WWI&II 15" gun monitor. The two ships in the class carried a single bow turret, were 410' x almost 90' including the bulges, and drew only 12'.

Version #1 (wooden) was built in 1984 and never saw action. It was scrapped after I developed a fibreglass hull mold and built #2. The model was the subject of a photo article in a U.S model boat magazine. (The publisher failed to pay for the article and didn't even give me a free copy of the issue! With a growing bad rep and mistreatment of authors it was not surprisingly that the mag eventually failed.)

Terror was plagued by a bad radio and low output Swampworks pump for 2 years, being sunk in most battles, but it was great fun to operate. After those items were replaced it rarely sank (at least with me at the helm) and was, like all of my small models, seaworthy.

It was the first R/C combat model operated by many of the original NABS members. It eventually passed out of my hands and had it's gun and excellent 2nd pump scavenged for bigger models, again becoming unreliable. I bought it back but by then it was in such bad shape it made more sense to mold a new hull and start afresh.

Sistership Erebus is under construction, this model having a working bow rudder and stern rudder, as per the prototypes. The Terror had a turning circle 5'-6' in diameter, but Erebus should turn in under 4'.

After much lobbying I was successful in getting all classes of British big gun monitors added to the official IRCWCC Ship List. However, the powers that be insisted on a speed slightly slower than convoy ships. (That isn't a problem if there are a lot of models on the water.)

A bow gun was the only option for this and the later Roberts Class, making them not as good as they could be vs other warship models. However, they are good candidates for attacking convoy ships, even if a little slower.

2) Roberts Class (~1999) - 2.0 units

The mold for the Terror Class was followed by one for the shorter (365') but heavier WWI 15" gun monitors: HMS Roberts and Abercrombie. I started to build a model but had too many so sold it without the guts installed.

With twin rudders the Roberts has a 4' diameter turning circle. The sloped sides (35 degrees) extending down and out to the edges of the wide bulges, approximately double the effective balsa thickness. Unfortunately none of the next 2-3 owners was able to make Roberts a battle ready or effective combat model. It was mainly used as a target.

I made an attempt to recover and rebuild it but the frustrated last owner initially refused to sell, then sold it at a flea market for $25! I see another one in my future.

3)HMS Gorgon (2000) - 1.5 units

This was a much smaller but more effective R/C combat model, mainly due to having a stern BB cannon and a very small turning circle (under 4'). It was my favorite model for 2 years and was never sunk while I owned it. The incredible maneuverability and small size made it a hard target to hit despite the slow speed.

Gorgon was a seaworthy model despite the small size (displacement under 5 lbs.). On trials I ran it in 18" waves, which it bobbed over like a rubber duck. Tricky to build due to limited internal space but with mini-servos, a Palmer 'Rock the Boat' regulator and 20gm CO2 capsules everything went in and worked fine.

Molds for the hull, superstructure, spotting top, 9.2" and 6" turrets, and conning tower made construction of the hull and superstructure easy. A now defunct NABS website had photos showing the construction and internal layout.

Gorgon was sold after 3 years but the new owner broke the tightly fitting stern cannon in an attempt to remove it for another model. He was unable to get another SW cannon to fit (they were all slightly different)so the model languished for a few years. I bought it in 2005 and restored it in 2006, but it's fought only once since.

It had a successful earlier career, defeating a Class 3 Houston Class cruiser and a Class 4 Viribus Unitas in 1:1 combat. (I have to admit the VU was having radio problems and defeated the Gorgon in a rematch a year later, but not by much!)

That's all for now. More to follow on HMS COurageous (1997), I-400 (current 'R&D' project), Profintern (mold finished) and HMS Furious (mold under construction).

Bob Pottle
NABS

 

Very nice story, thanks for sharing...

 

There was a HMS Roberts in the WWCC, as well. When first built, it was highly unreliable. At its first battle, a 1/8" air line exploded (suspicious, those are rated for over 300 PSI) which blew out a panel, and sent the ship to the bottom less than 30 seconds after battle began. Literally, it was "3, 2, 1, commence fire!" BANG *hiss* *gurgle* *bubble*bubble*bubble*. After that, it did not see combat again until it was sold and rebuilt. It was armed with one double-barrel 1/4" cannon powered by an onboard air compressor. It was very slow but maneuvered very well, and was usually parked about ten feet from the action so it could sling big shells in without serious threats of return fire. Roberts was also used for its design purpose, bombarding shore batteries, dock targets, and Axis positions up to 25 miles inland. Because of its heavy armor, sloped sides, and almost nonexistent freeboard, it was rarely damaged and had an excellent service record. One other interesting feature is that the bulged underwater hull made it difficult for ships to attack up close. Since most skippers are used to attacking ships with non-bulged sides, they would they would aim where you'd expect a non-bulged boat's hull to be, and send shells into the bulletproof superstructure and deck rather than the sides. Personally I was hoping to fight the ship with my refit Spahkreuzer, but when the opportunity came, the King George V presented a better opportunity. HMS Roberts was sold again, and currently resides in Oregon where it is getting yet another major refit.

 

Katori, that was one of about 6 Roberts hulls shipped to the U.S. I knew they had potential if built and used properly. I think there are 2 in the Washington State 'small gun' club.

To continue the unusual ship model story:

HMS Courageous (1997)

Everyone told me this long, small ruddered ship with only 2 turrets and 4.0 combat units would suck in IRCWCC style combat. They were right but it was the most handsome model I've built for R/C combat (except maybe my 1920 configuration HMS Hood).

Courageous was first used in 1997 and was not a success. Lost on points to a more maneuverable Invincible in a 1:1. Sank in spectacular fashion several times giving great photos, including a vertical sink on video silhouetted against a sunset.

The model had a rotating bow turret and dual stern guns but it took so long to turn the stern guns only had a target when Courageous was fleeing from Bismarck or Tirpitz. In 1998 the club allowed it to have two 1.5 unit sidemounts trained port and starboard. That was the best gun configuration but the club went back to strictly IRCWCC rules in 1999, which was the last year I used the Courageous.

It was replaced by my Espana, a very successful little battleship, and sold to a U.S. MWC member. The molds for both Espana and Courageous were sold to Rich Wands of the OAF. Under the newer IRCWCC rules Courageous can have a rudder 50% bigger than on mine, but at best would turn like a large heavy cruiser.

Surcouf (2001)

Using one of Ralph Coles hulls I started to make this a diving comabt model but soon realized it was impossible. There just isn't enough space. It might be possible to make it a surface running combatant but I gave up and went on to the I-400.

I-400 (2003 - now)

I was given a Battlers' I-400 hull, sliced it in two horizontally and glassed on another 3/8" to deepen the lower hull and provide more internal space. It was then built with free-flooding stern and bow sections, a fiberglass deck with plexiglass hatches and neoprene hatch seals, and an amidships pressure hull.

I replaced the hangar and conning tower with new fiberglass items that were more correct in appearance and dimensions, and installed a custom built, self draining 50 shot cannon in the hangar.

Saddle type ballast tanks were molded amidships within the hull, and a complex system of micro-servos and Clippard valves vented the tanks and blew CO2 into them to surface. The sub could do a static dive, sit on the bottom and resurface without difficulty. There used to be a video on an old NABS website showing the first static dive and resurface outside of my bathtub.

The gun worked fine after resurfacing but there was too much weight topside. In anything but a flat calm the sub was too unstable for combat. Even too sharp a turn would destabilize it. The cannon was reduced to 25 shots (allowed 75 under IRCWCC rules), then to a 15 shot spurt gun, and much work was done on ballasting but it remained too unstable.

I haven't given up and am moving internal lead ballast (r/c airplane type) from inside the pressure hull to the keel, which is 1/2" lower. Unfortunately I don't think the problem can be solved. The model is only slightly positively buoyant and like a real sub in that condition is inherently unstable.

It may be converted to the I-402 (aviation fuel tanker) and used as a submerging convoy ship this summer. The other option is to remove all of the diving gear, reballast and make it a surface running 'gunboat'.

Russian CL Profintern (2007)

This is one of my newest hulls and was built specifically to operate in IRCWCC 'Campaign Lite' as a battleship killer. 4 of the ship's main armament guns were in bow casemates so I'll be installing 4 x 1/2 unit (10 shot) spurt guns.

In 'Campaign' there are always a few stationary enemy battleships using their stern guns to shoot magnetic targest on the enemy home base. The Profintern is designed to approach a battleship's side and fire 4 x 10 BB blasts from about 6" away. The BB cannons in the casemates can easily hit the waterline within 6" of Profintern's bow. They can't be trained parallel to the keel so the two pairs will produce 2 large holes a few inches apart to port and starboard of the bow. (Test firing of a 10 shot spurt gun routinely blew ragged holes about an inch in diameter in 1/32" balsa.) This should pose a serious threat to any battleship. Under 'Campaign Lite' rules the Profintern can then zoom off and reload.

HMS Furious

Yes, the half sister of the Courageous and Glorious, but with only 2 x 18" guns vs 4 x 15". I've wanted to build this oddball for years, despite my experience with Courageous - it's too weird a ship to resist.

It will have the 50% larger rudder allowed after rule changes but will need a local club rule to run with a 1.5 unit gun in each turret (under IRCWCC rules it could only have 2 x 1.0 unit guns leaving 2 units for pumps), trained port and starboard.

I've been working on the hull plug on and off for 2 years and find the wider and more sharply curved bulges a challenge. I hope to complete the mold this summer. With this hull configuration it can also be used as the hybid WWI carrier/battelcruiser or full carrier of 1918. (The final hull configuration had the bulges extended much higher up the hull.) All of the planes carried in WWI are available in 1/144 scale.

Bob Pottle

 

Jeez, that Russian CL Profintern sounds like what my Spahkreuzer does with its torpedoes. Best damage I ever did was a .5" tall by 1.5" chunk knocked out of a Rodney, half above and half below the water. Any deeper and multiple balls from the same barrel get pushed together by the water and only make a single hole.

 

For photos of my unusual combat models go to (and join) the NABS Yahoo group. Go to Links, click on the 'New' NABS Site. Once there the photos are not linked to 'Ships' but are found on the 'For Sale' page, below the actual sale ads (don't ask me why). Find my name and click on the ship names (often there are two pages of photos).

More of my unusual ships:

HMAS/HMS Albatross (2007)

This is another new mold for an Aussie seaplane carrier (later a WWII Royal Navy Fleet Repair Ship). Weird looking vessel with a raised foredeck like an upturned clothes iron in outline and a tug-like superstructure on the much lower quarterdeck. If my memory is correct it was about 440' x 75' over the antitorpedo bulges.

Bulged hull, 3 large cranes forward for recovering seaplanes and lifting them from the hangar below the flight deck, a large catapult at the bow, and 4 x 4" guns: 2 on the foredeck and 2 aft on the superstructure.

Classified as either a CVE or Gunboat/Other under IRCWCC rules. If unarmed it can be used as a convoy ship. I intend to arm mine with a 0.5 unit stern gun and 0.5 unit pump. The first hulls will be made as soon as warm weather returns.

Sri Ayuthia

Siamese WWII 'pocket heavy cruiser' armed with 2 x twin 8" turrets. Japanese built. I made a very lightweight 21" fiberglass hull about 6 years ago but didn't think I could build such a light model. After building several small combat models I now think it can be done. This one counts as a 1.0 unit 'Gunboat/Other'.

Wind Class WII U.S. armed ice breaker (2006)

Ralph Coles makes this beautiful little hull, which is about the same size and displacement as my HMS Gorgon. Also a 'Gunboat/Other' it is unique in the prototype having bow and stern props. This can be built with an aft rudder but props at both or either end. Nice looking ships with turrets like the secondaries on USN battleships.
I'll eventually get around to building it.

Bob Pottle

 

Bob-

An update on your old Courageous. She's still alive and kicking, and under the Washington Treaty ruleset, she should be a laughing stock no longer. It will be perfectly legal for me to arm her with 2 1.5 unit guns AND make them both rotate (as long as they are never in the same quadrant together). At 31 knots, the Axis simply doesnt have anything that can run her down; the closest is a 31 knot Scharnhorst. She should be able to pull away from the Vittorios, Bismarcks and Yamatos with relative ease. If they want to try their luck with 35 knot Mogamis, they are more then welcome, but I'll have sidemounts and they won't.

All things being equal, in big ponds the Courageous should be a fairly good ship. My Invincible wouldn't stand a chance of catching her, and even if she did, the 1.5 unit sidemounts would make the fight an iffy proposition. I'm looking forward to finding out if she'll be as good on the water as she appears on paper for Washington Treaty combat.

Mike D

 

Mike,
Let me know how the Courageous does under the Washington treaty rule set. (Where can I get a copy of the rules?)

You should try battling her in rough water - great fun! There's video of a late '90s NABS battle in a strong wind and waves 1' - 1.5' high. A Lutzow is seen running straight into the waves, being submerged to aft of the bridge but shedding the water and plowing ahead.

Courageous is rolling but the wide flared bow slices easily through the waves going upwind, then she catches a few waves and surfs downwind. There's footage of Bismarck wallowing upwind in pursuit and taking it very green over the bows. Sistership Tirpitz is swamped and sunk without a single BB hit. Rough water adds a new dimension to a battle!

Good luck with Courageous! I paln to finish the Furious mold in August and have Courageous' half-sister in action next spring.

Bob

 

The treaty yahoo site is located at:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TreatyCombat/

I am pretty sure there is a copy of the rules in the files section. If not, I can get Mikey Deskin to email you a copy as I think he is the keeper of the rules at the moment.

The Courageous has always cut a VERY sexy wake. She just looks good on the water, and your points about the wide bow make me want a nice windy day to try her.

Mike D

 

How about the Heavest armed ship for its weight thru WW2. The Finnish ILmarinen & Vainamoinen. 4, 10 inch guns, on 305 feet. Built with a icebreaker hull, with sloped sides, should be hard to hit. 25.4 inches long, 4.6 wide, weight 3.8 max, in 1/144 scale. They don't fit anywhere in the MWC rules, and are not listed on the MWC shiplist, but my guess is after looking at other coastal defense ships, that it would be 2.5 units.

They were built in 1931, and the first one was sunk in combat, it mined itself. Russians took over the second one at the end of the war.

I want to make one, but so far only found some rough hand drawings, and pictures, but no plans. A fellow in California has made one, but has no email address listed, a Dave Seibel. Anyone know of him, and has his email address. This would be a sweet boat for those long distance trips, nice and light, with heavy firepower.

Dave R