Well have it limited down a bit.. bit operative word.

I have/had a topic in general forums that was pondering ship to start off with. Put it there since there were some ?s that were not ship specific. I can not edit or open it up now (the other post) but figure I should now move it here.
Background
Beginner w/ limited experience in other rc things (planes and cars)
Looking to get a kit for my first ship (ie fiberglass hull) to get the basics down (ie. KISS principle)
Have some guys nearby in Great Lakes Attack Squadron they are MWC
See IRCMWC has some neat meets on the east coast that seem to be closer than MWC so will try to stradle both formats legally. (found in the previous post it wouldn't be a hard thing to slow down a ship if required to do IRCMWC w/ electronic speed controllers)
I do like the idea of a smaller ship IF and only IF it is feasible for a beginner.
Axis or Allies is not the biggest determination (but some leanings to Allies).

For the smaller ships the smallest I would go are the following..
HMS Ajax (Leander Class), or RM Montecuccoli both are 2.5 unit light cruisers the Ajax being the heavier of the two. Both are by RC Artwerks. Both would be done as dual stern gun set ups.
USS Des Moines 3.5 unit but the more I think about it I am leaning away from it. It will be a big 700+ LOA ship w/ 3 stern guns so I am thinking maybe to big a of a target for a beginner. Plus a 4unit will have the same cannons w/ ability to have side mounts. It is by BC it does look like an easy build though with the flush hull.
The bigger ships..
4.5 Units HMS Lion or RM Andrea Doria both have dual rudders so I would assume more manueverable and the Lion being the faster of the 2.. No need to adjust speed for different formats.. bot h by BC. The HMS Lion is the least favorite of them all aesthetically but seems most viable fighting.
Lastly if RM Andrea Doria figured what the heck why not USS Maryland. It is the same speed and I could go dual sterns and 2 side mounts. No need to adjust speed for different formats.. There would be no concersn of weight restrictions but seems more complicated to build. Plus for upkeep is the 4th cannon a big deal? Another by BC.

I am leaning to the 2.5's or the USS Maryland. Is a CL in the 9lb range or a 5 unit too ambitious for a beginner in build and in battle? I do like the idea of being able to disengage from bigger ships thus the 2.5 unit light cruisers..

 

An old rule of thumb was start with 4.5 units +- 1. Ideally something between 3.5 (Lutzow) to 5.5 (QE, Bayern). While a small ship sounds better, it is harder to build. Ship build #3 for a friend was the Westphalen. 4 units, no superstructure and almost no spare room at all. And it has to balance when you put it in the water. He griped about not having any space for four months.

I built a 2.5 unit cruiser as my first ship and it will forever hold the record for number of sinks. It wasn't until build #6 that I was confident enough to try something lighter and it still isn't battling because I can't find a pump that is short enough.

The big ships are much easier to build!

 

I highly recommend the Maryland. There is a ton of room, the ship is very stable, there is a lot of forgiveness in battling her and she can become so many different ships with some modifications. I had a rookie last year in one and he did great. I got him settled and turned him loose on the water. I never looked back. Some say they are a little too big and cost more cause of the units to build but I started with a Sodak and I think the Maryland would have still been my boat if I started there.

Just my opinion, and you know how opinions are...

 

What's "Maryland class"? I can find 4 USS Maryland's in USN history, but none was the lead ship of a class.
JM

 

Pardon my ignorance, I meant the Colorado class. I understood what the op meant. Four ships of the Colorado class were
Colorado 1923, Maryland 1921, Washington, never completed, West Virginia 1923

p.s. did you really look for a Maryland class?

 

Thanks for your input seems that is down to either RM Andrea Doria or USS Maryland (w/ my leaning to USS Maryland). I'll get w/ the local group today the Great Lakes Attack Squadron site has some contact info. Maybe they will send to one side or the other.
Unless there are others out there that have other ideas for a good beginner ship?

 

Yeah, I did. A lot of names have been reused by many navies, including USN. You never know...
JM

 

Yup the MARYLAND can be a good ship. But keep in mind that it has a lot FREEBOARD. Good for staying afloat, good for rough water, good for the bad guys to shoot you. The "Colorado class" is a unique in it's self. With just about every other US class you get 3 barrels per turret. The Colorado only has 2. Triple sterns required 2 turrets. The California (or is that Tennessee) is very similar
in hull design but offers 3 barrels per turret.
Have fun

Danny

 

Well got in contact w/ the local group Great Lakes Attack Squadron. I will be going over one of their houses to take a gander at his ship, a SMS Van der Tann. He seemed to think similar to you in the case of the freeboard. To paraphrase him "yes it would be big and fairly easy to make but it would also be a good target". He seems to be steering me towards a 3 unit or 4 unit vessel first. So that means Cleveland Class, DKM Prinz Eugen, Des Moines Class for the 3s and in the 4s HMS Lion, RN Andrea Doria, or SMS Van der Tann.
I want a ship to learn to build ships and to learn basic tactics.
Is it better to learn stern gun tactics first? If that is the case then I would think the 3s or maybe Andrea Doria since the PE, DM and AD could all have 3 stern guns (Cleveland of course being 2).
It seems of all the above the easiest to make would be the DKM Prinz Eugen, Des Moines Class or the Andrea Doria. Are there plans out there for the R.N. Giulio Cesare? It is a sister ship for the R.N. Andrea Doria but has a different lay out for the AA and secondaries. Would it be a big deal to modify the BC AD (I would assume I would have to make the secondaries). It seems to me the aft decks starts earlier on the Giulio Cesare or is that my eyes tricking me... www.regiamarina.net/arsenals/ships_...tle_us.htm it would be the Cavour Class instead of the Duilio class. They both have the same beam, close draft (2 m more for Cavour) and close LOA (2m less for Cavour).

 

If you want to learn basic tatics and building tips check out:
http://www.portpolarbear.com/reports/index.html
http://www.scrapcombatships.com/commodore/tactics/tactics.html

 

Of all of those ships, the sms von der tann is the best battler, but a little tight on space. Personally, i like the doria, but it isnt any where near as good in my opinion.

 

I had a California, which is basically a Maryland. It was my first ship and was a pretty mean little boat. That class turns on a dime, which will keep you away from the faster ships guns and when it has to can take a beating. I only got rid of it because i would rather be driving a German ship. So basically the most important thing is build what you wanna build.

As much money as your going to be putting into the thing you might as well build what you really want or your always going to want to build that ship and wont be as happy with what you have.

 

Thanks Bob!
Well I got in touch and met Mark Roe the closest member of Great Lakes Attack Squadron (a MWC group). Real nice guy and fielded most of my questions. When I went there I was expecting I was going to the angels sing and have an epiphany on the ship. *sigh* Either I am deaf or the epiphany didn't happen. Funny thing in his news letter a couple of your articles were in it and I had taken great thought when you put those links up earlier. He did think a cruiser would be a good start. His reasoning was that you get to replenish batteries in addition the other bigger ships at 4+ get. He did say a ship akin to the VDT like HMS Invincible would be good as well. I could do a VDT but seems alot of people are going that way and well we have one here. So being me I like to do something a bit different. I shot an email off to Tugboat a couple days ago inquiring about his HMS Leander and the SMS Seydlitz and haven't gotten a response yet. My only question was about his turrets, superstructures and details because when you try to go there you get an error message.
The ships I like..
HMS Leander 2.5 biggest con is a couple ounce shy of 10lbs but in comparision to other 3s only a pound less so should be a big difference. It just has nice lines and the HMS Ajax or Achilles was at River Plate some nice history there. There will be a meeting in Febuary nearby that one of the guys runs a class 2 or 3 and he uses the lighter regulator whihc I may have to use w/ this ship..
USS Northampton biggest con seems to be availability. If I could get one easily I would do this one. Only the Aussy group Bowning makes it. A ship maker list shows as Swampworks having a Houston not sure if that is the Northampton or the Cleveland class hull though. Anyone know which Steve makes? Granted either way might be hard to get a hull. I haven't sent inquiries to Bowning or to Steve asking if he will be taking orders soon (I understand he is semi retired). But it would be neat to do the USS Augusta (Nimitz's command in mid 30s).
DKM Prinz Eugen biggest con it is a 3 screw ship so if I were to use drag screws I would be running one screw and Tyler mentioned there can be problems w/ that. Plus it is rather long ship for on only one rudder so I am thinking it might be a bit like the USS Des Moines w/ out the bigger rudder. But I could do dual sterns w/ a single stern may set at a 15 degree offset w/ some barrel depression in the X turret to try to below the water lines. Since per MWC I could use the .5 for a half unit pump. Since it is a BC this would be easy to get I guess.
RN Andrea Doria only issue is that is only a two screws so no drag screws to help turning but it does have twin rudders.
SMS Seydlitz no big cons from what I can see after reading up on things. But I am some one that has never put a boat in the water.
I am leaning to the Leander right now granted I now I will have to use NiMH batteries. Unless some one knows how I can get my hands on a Northampton. For the 4s it is a toss up. Same amount of units, same speed, one 5" longer than the other but I could use drag screws w/ the Seydlitz.
What do you guys think? Are there any things I am over looking?
Lastly should I inquire Tugboat about his stuff here or try emailing again. My email is a hotmail account so he may be dumping me into spam folder.. I know I do in my hotmail account.
On a side note.. If I go w/ the Leander I will plan to do the USS Tennessee next (just hope to get in when Steve does a series) do it either as a Tennesse or minor mod it for the 44' West Virginia. 3rd build.. something scratch =D

 

Ok, here's my two cents:
Leander, cool looking, but too small for a first ship, and should be left for later builds.
Northampton, 3 unit cruiser, basic rookie ship, if you like it, good, but you wont have sidemounts.
DKM Prinze Eugene, big 3.5 unit cruiser, so three stern guns, but its long, so still, not great turning. Big Target in my opinion, (the Graf Spee, my ship in the works now is a 3.5 unit ship, but much shorter.
Andrea Doria, has 2 inline rudders, onw in front of another, which makes turning worse, also, a target, but very doable for a rookie, as it has sidemounts.
Seydlitz, also has inline rudders, a large target too.

My advice, take another look at Battlers connection, especially the Von Der Tann, the Lion, and the maryland. I think that they would be good ships. However, do what ship you like, I bought a Graf Spee from Ralph Coles (take a look at his stuff, its fantastic), and am currently building it, even if i was advised to get a battleship with4 or more units. This hobby is about doing what you likw, so dont look for the ship that will preform the best. Also, I would advise staying between 3 and 5 units for you first ship, depending on how much experience you have. Best of luck to you.

 

Lucky you. Swampy just annouced that he is again taking an order for hulls. Check out the For Sale page on this web site.
For you Gardennome the Houston is a Swampy hull that is a very good rookie ship. I LOVE mine and have battle it for 10+ years. Other cruisers that are good starter ships are Brooklyn (Not as good as Houston), Lutzow, Exeter & George Leyguens. Though the GL is a little on the light side.
He also has the Derflinger, I-boat, Moltke & Kongo as class 4 ships that make good starter ships.

 

Arizona $140 that's the one to get, 5.5 units, 4 turrets 3 barrels per turret and 26 seconds in IRCWCC, the only bad is 1 rudder.

You have what you need need, now you know what to do....

 

Ok, ill agree with Rob on this one, the Arizona is a fine ship, but then again, so is the Iron duke from BC, take a look at that too.

 

My biggest question for the person who started this thread is what kind of battler do you wish to be. Do you like driving in reverse a lot? Maybe you like to snipe at folks? Or are you into being really up close and personal?

Once you really decide how you may wish to battle selecting a ship becomes a lot easier. Personally do not rule out the older World War One ships. Their design lends to a new type of tactics that are not expected in this hobby. So many people are against bow guns that when you encounter a ship that has them and set up right you are taken very much by surprise.

And your thoughts on the DKM Prinz Eugen is going to be pretty correct. It will be very much similar to the Des Moines.

Well what ever way you go I am sure folks will help you out a lot.

 

He may not know which kind of battler he is going to be.....im not sure yet, but its the kind of ship that dictates your battling technique. A battle cruiser may give him the speed, and sidemounts, to deal with most situations. Maybe he doesnt have much rc experience (like me) and go with a run and gun cruiser. Maybe he is very experienced and is in love with a larger ship, in which case he should go with that. There are many variables, of which his assumed battling techniques is not very important.

 

Thanks for your input Boomer. The above got me thinking though. How is a Tandem twin Rudder better than a Inline Twin rudder. I would think that inline would mean right behind the props what would tandem be? I have never seen 2 rudders in a linear line one behind the other. This is something I am real curious about the only close up model of the stern of Seydlitz does not indicate them being in a linear line but it is hard to say.
What kind of battler? Well I know that I really don't know. I do know that I am a big proponent of crawling, walking, then running. I do know that in other endeavors akin to this I prefer the ability to choose my fights when I am learning. So that would mean a cruiser to run and gun right now. Do I want to get in there and mix it up? Heck yes. But most advice I have seen is that stern guns and learning them is key. Plus all indications of beginners while 5 and up unit ships are easier to build as in fitting and not worrying about weight concerns, they also tend to multiply any kind errors the begginer did in build (water channeling, balance, guns, mobility, reliablity). Those five things seem to be the crux of the hobby. I'll be getting the Houston (almost leaned to the LG after looking at it) but I am deciding on a either doing an early Pennsylvania/Arizona or Late Tennessee as my second so will get that hull too now (wont be started for over a year but hear good things about those hulls that steve does). My only thing w/ the early Pennsylvania is the cage mast.. it is not my favorite era of american masts I must admit but I like the look of the forward casements then.. plus... how in the heck does one do a Caged Mast? I probably propose the caged masts in build section or the like. I am leaning to the Tennessee (B) (or West Virginia (B) think they were basically the same in the hull unlike the other Colorado (B) class) now.. will decide in the next few days.