Accuracy

Discussion in 'General' started by Kotori87, Aug 3, 2011.

  1. Kotori87

    Kotori87 Well-Known Member

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    I just saw something incredible today. Reading through the IRCWCC forum, I saw RichelieuBB posted an analysis of the 2011 Nats. What impressed me was his listed accuracy stat. He said:
    To me, a Big Gunner, a 15% hit rate is simply astounding. Incredible. The only ships I've ever seen exceed that hit rate were torpedo-cruisers, and those are the exception, not the rule. For most Big Gun ships, a 5% hit rate is a more appropriate expectation. I carry nearly 1,000 rounds of ammo in my battleship Prinz Eugen, and if I leave 50 holes in my targets then either I'm extremely lucky or my target broke down and didn't surrender.
    I know that torpedo-cruisers have a very high hit rate. An average of 25%, and in some cases, as high as 75%. But they only get four to six shots in a sortie, so it makes sense that they try to make those few shots count.
    So why do Fast Gun ships have such a high hit rate?
     
  2. mike5334

    mike5334 Well-Known Member

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    If I had to guess a reason, it would be the combat reverse seen in fast gun battles and the much higher rates of fire.

    The combat reverse lets captains maneuver ships easier to get cannons on target, especially stern cannons and stern sidemounts.

    Additionally, the fast rate of fire lets a captain fire more shots in that small window of opportunity a ship gets when the range is right. If I get a good 5 seconds at perfect range, then a goodly percentage of the 25 - 30 shots are going to hit and make a hole.

    And for food for thought, the percentages above were for an entire fleet. There are ships and captains doing higher hit rates to offset the wasted BBs in ships that sink or fail to shoot off of their rounds.
     
  3. SnipeHunter

    SnipeHunter Well-Known Member

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    I imagine it is a combination of things includeing but not limited to:

    Range (Fast gun fights are shorter ranges)
    Fixed Guns (easier to aim as they always hit in the same spot, I think this is the big difference)
    Reverse (the manuerability is needed since most guns are fixed)
    ROF (once you get on target you can unload ammo fairly quickly before the enemy can do a whole lot to react to it, also a major contribuitor)
    Triple Sterns (not joking here but this really goes back to the fixed guns, a standard set of fixed triple sterns with a halfway decent skipper will probably have a hit % well over 50% for a sortie,)
    Skills (that pay the bills)

    I think it is mostly due to the fixed guns being so much easier to aim than guns that can be pointing any which way that are on a ship that can be pointing any which way.
     
  4. Renodemona

    Renodemona Well-Known Member

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    Payin' the bills with his mad sidemounting skills.
    Deburring his barrells for thrills.
    Got 100 Watts of current, wires melting down is never imminent.
    He's strickly making hay, he aint afraid to back away.
    Down with DW, calls him Fluegel for short.

    During the Japan (and Randy and Steve) Vs. The World battle, the Japanese fleet shot an unheard of 40% accuracy. The world still shot a very nice 19%.
    Go Go Casemate power!
     
  5. mike5334

    mike5334 Well-Known Member

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    Yup. The Japan vs the World battle at the 2011 Bruhaha is the highest percentage I've ever seen yet. Though the Axis at the IRCWCC Nats this year did 39% during one battle.

    It is still incredible that the Axis at the Nats did an average 33% for the entire week.
     
  6. Kotori87

    Kotori87 Well-Known Member

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    Well it certainly isn't the combat reverse, since only some Big Gun clubs place restrictions on that and my club isn't one of them. Fixed guns... yes, I can see that. Rate of fire... that's probably the big one. I don't know how many times I've taken a shot, spotted the splash, corrected my aim, and then missed the next shot because I had to wait.

    Another possibility is armor protection. How many dents do Fast Gun ships get, in proportion to holes? I know that the thicker-armored battleships can take as many or more dents than holes.
     
  7. buttsakauf

    buttsakauf Well-Known Member

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    From what I saw at the IRCWCC Nats. The only dents you get is if you hit an impenetrable spot. I saw a few shallow angle "grazing" shots that didn't penetrate. I like the fact that if you take a good shot at an impenetrable area it counts virtually every time.

    It makes me think that if we have already scaled the damage control and gun sizes for big gun why have different skin thicknesses? I liked having a standard with a penetration test. I know some ships skins get really tough after a while. I see hull thicknesses as an easy to fudge area.
     
  8. rarena

    rarena Well-Known Member

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    The fleet has done me very proud.....
    Cookies and icepops for everyone!
    Darth Iceman
     
  9. thegeek

    thegeek Well-Known Member

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    Darth the sea is in flux, your scores in this victory should make you think.
    2010 victory for Axis by 46,000 points
    2011 victory for Axis by 18,000 points
    What does next year bring?

    "I fear you have awakened a sleeping giant"
     
  10. jch72

    jch72 Active Member

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    Ming, it will bring reinforcements. Two state of the art Bismarck class and a working Nagato. And possibly an allied cruiser, and an Invincible with an old pump motor and worn out drive bearings, and a Queen Elisabeth made with used parts.

    "really? The allies lost again?"
     
  11. Kotori87

    Kotori87 Well-Known Member

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    What does next year bring? An even smaller gap between the Axis and Allies. It's like the mathematical concept of limits, where Y (the difference in points) approaches zero as X (the number of Nats) approaches infinity. Always getting closer, but never actually getting there. Axis team BANZAI!
    Back on topic, I would love to run a few battles with different rules to see what improves accuracy, but I think I'll have a hard time convincing other members of my local club to do so. The easiest thing to test is ROF. It only takes a couple seconds for a Big Gun cannon to recharge, easily less than half the allowed 6 or 8 second ROF. And if you get over-eager and fire too fast, the cannons won't be fully recharged and fire weak. I'd bet that makes a big difference, but again I don't think many other WWCCers would want to try it out. What I'd really love to do is reduce armor thicknesses in addition to an ROF increase, but doing that would be nearly impossible since it requires everyone to re-sheet their boats.
     
  12. Bob

    Bob Well-Known Member

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    In The Japan (+Steve+Randy) Battle we shot 40.13%, don't sell us short. Think of the higher % we would have had if Brandon's Fuso would not have gone dead in both sorties.

    I love your poem/rap Brandon, set it to music and get Johnny to add it to a video!
     
  13. mike5334

    mike5334 Well-Known Member

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    Nothing wrong with resheeting boats. I tend to do it at least twice a year; once before the Brouhaha, and once before the Nats. :D
     
  14. Renodemona

    Renodemona Well-Known Member

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    Kotori, we are having a battle up in Reno in September. Stephen has stated he'd go, you're welcome to come too. I have extra boats for people to try if the I-boat isn't quite ready.

    Bob, its a parody of "it's all about the benjamins" There'a also a Wierd Al song "It's all about the Pentiums" so I guess mine would be "It's all about the Interrupters?"
     
  15. Kotori87

    Kotori87 Well-Known Member

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    Alas, by then I will be at boot camp for the USN. Otherwise I would love to go and see/try a Fast Gun battle.
     
  16. rarena

    rarena Well-Known Member

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    The rate of fire may change accuracy but I would be interested to see the difference between a rotates battle and a fixed gun battle in Big Gun. That should be easy to do and requires no resheeting or rate changes.
    I wonder how that would affect accuracy.
     
  17. CURT

    CURT Well-Known Member

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    Congrats to the Axis for such accurate shooting. Northern Bismarck crew is very pleased. However the margin was not as wide as in 2010. Intelligence reports indicate that several very large Allie ships are preparing for a Nats that will surely see that gap close shut and open again with a Allie accuracy to exceed beyond all expectations.
     
  18. rarena

    rarena Well-Known Member

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    I hear of a lot of new allied ships to join the fleet. I don't think that translates to accuracy. It took me a few years to get mine to run well without worrying about shooting good. Where are the old time tested reliable ships like the pair of Yammers the Axis had for years? By the way, this year was a year without either captain battling for the Axis. The Axis fleet seemed a bit smaller than usual.
     
  19. NASAAN101

    NASAAN101 Well-Known Member

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    Question,
    And Kind of Off-topic, How fast do the BB's Go when they leave the Cannons???
    Nikki
     
  20. mike5334

    mike5334 Well-Known Member

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    The better fast gun cannons in the hobby with a good tweak are averaging 240 - 260 feet per second. The fastest cannons using a tight tweak have been recorded close to 290 feet per second.