What would be the best convoy ship to build? I my self think the Japanese I-402 or the German Duetchland (Converted U 150). The reason I think they would be good is that since they had no guns or torps there would be plenty of inside room. Which means it could dive with ballast tanks or dinamic. Also since Im closest to a treaty group I would more than likely go with treaty ruleset. Sinse they could dive they would be fairly safe from the enemy ships.
I'd argue for either a small tramp steamer size vessel or a massive floating billboard like one of the liners. The steamer because it would be small and nimble, making it a good selection to keep its small vulnerable sections away from enemy vessels - but it would be large enough to fit the internals and a decent battery arrangement. The liner because while its huge and will attract bb's, that same enormousness will make it nearly impossible to sink. Tons of reserve bouyancy. If your club counts points on convoy ships instead of just sinks this is probably a bad choice. A submarine seems good in concept, but if its your first build you may find the challenge exceeds what you can do up to your expectations.
I'm not entirely familiar with the Treaty ruleset, so I can't give very many specific pointers. However, it seems to me like you've stumbled onto the question of "what makes a convoy ship 'the best'?" Is it the ship's size? speed? volume? pumping capacity? Is it the ship's ability to avoid damage? Is it the ship's ability to survive lots of damage? Is it the ship's ease of maintenance? Ease of construction? Ease of operation? Is it the ship's appearance? History? And further complicating the matter, what exactly IS a convoy ship? Is it a ship that historically sailed in convoys? Is it a ship that was designed to operate in convoys? Is it any ship that carried cargo, or was it any ship that had specific features designed for carrying cargo? For example, were the Japanese destroyers of the Tokyo Express, carrying cargo on their decks, considered cargo? What about the US submarines that delivered commandos to remote islands in the Pacific? What about the battleship Scharnhorst, carrying supplies on its decks for the invasion of Norway? And what about the fishing ships that ferried spies and messages across the English Channel, or carried Chariot manned torpedoes to attack the Tirpitz? Would you consider Q-ships and raiders to be convoy vessels (when their weapons are de-activated)? If you narrow the playing field down to ships that were built or modified to carry cargo, you allow the Japanese cruiser Kitikami (most, but not all, of its torpedo tubes were removed when it was rebuilt as a fast transport), but not the Manxman class of minelaying cruisers, a class of ships specifically credited with saving Malta from the Germans with their supply runs. If you narrow it down to ships designed to operate in convoy, you eliminate passenger liners like the Queen Mary. The definition of a convoy vessel is something that a lot of clubs aren't very specific on. Nonetheless, that line between cargo vessels and non-cargo vessels will have an important impact on what ship is the best. Second, let me ask you a question. How interesting would it be to you, if your cargo ship was invincible? You could complete your convoy runs without interference, score piles of points for your team, and win the day, all without the risk of even a single hole. Does that sound like fun? Or how about a ship that is so big, and takes so long to sink, that when your opponents run out of ammunition you won't sink for another 15 minutes? Or how about a ship that is so small, agile, and hard to hit that your opponents could empty their magazines without scoring a single hit? I made the mistake of building such a ship in 2008. Heck, I built four of that ship. It was fun for a bit, but I soon realized that skippers had just as hard a time hitting when I wasn't dodging as they had when I was dodging. That year's campaign game was a blowout, because of those ships, and there was nothing the other team could do about it. I found myself actually sailing my ship into another's guns, and then specifically maneuvering to increase their odds of hitting. At the end of the year, two of those ships faced off against the entire club in a tightly enclosed cage. It took 15 minutes, and both cargo ships were ram-sunk. The ships have been re-assigned as rookie boats, to introduce new members to the basics of ship-handling and maintenance without getting slaughtered every sortie, and they have performed well in this role. But I still find myself wishing I had built a larger ship. The same applies to the submarine transports you've mentioned. True, they would accomplish their mission very well. But they would accomplish it TOO well, and suck the fun out of success. I submit that the best cargo ship is one that challenges you to do your best. You want a ship that will challenge you, and push you, and force you to get better. You want a ship that you can put 110% effort into and still not be guaranteed a victory, rather than a ship that you can put 10% effort into and still win. For your first ship, just about anything will be a good challenge, construction-wise. What you need to look for is a ship to challenge your battling skills. If you want to build a transport, consider ships like the Mehoshi Maru, Liberty Ship, Cimarron oiler, or Landing Ship (Tank). A fiberglass LST hull is available from Strike Models, and a Liberty Ship is available at Battler's Connection. If you want a wooden hull instead, plans for the Mehoshi Maru, CAD-modeled by me, are available on this website. The Landing Ship Tank and Mehoshi Maru would be my top picks. The LST has similar handling characteristics to my transports, but it has enough freeboard that it's not an impossible target. There's lots of room for skill to improve your performance in that ship. The Mehoshi Maru is bigger than my transport, so it won't maneuver as well, but it has low freeboard and so is hard to hit from a distance. The Mehoshi Maru is the ship I wish I'd built instead of the ships I did. I'll open the floor for others to make suggestions, but remember that a perfect ship may not be the best thing for you or your club.
Are the ships that you built on the video Willy Maket? Also, the reason i want submarines is that once im out of college I will be working for Boeing, Lockheed Martin, Northrop Grumman, Fairchild-Republic, or Lockheed Skunkworks. Most of them are close to California. Right now I am in Indiana. Somewhere in one of the forums it said something about downward facing bb guns to represent deptcharges.
I have always wanted to do a APD based on a flush decker. No point in trying to arm it at its size. I think the most interesting transport I have seen was one on of the Australian groups' site was the cruiser HMS Terrible. She was used as a trooper in WW1. Not a legal conversion under most of the rules up here I think.
Hi Guys I would bet the reason why treaty has not done convoys yet is because they are still some what new and growing, Jump in you could be the first captain! I would pick like a fleet oiler, victory ship or an attach transport or even a small carrier for convoy ship. Buddy
Upon hearing that, my first question is whether or not Treaty's scoring system allows convoys. I'm not talking about what's written in the book, it's the method used at the pond that counts. So if Treaty battles usually end with one side or the other saying "good job, you kicked our butts" or "ya know, I'm not really sure which side won. We'll call it a draw", then a cargo boat won't have much role on the pond. On the other extreme, if Treaty battles end with a detailed tally of holes and points for each ship, cargo boats will have a very clear role. There's no point building a cargo ship if it doesn't have a role to play. @JKN: the whole "depth charge gun" is an idea from the WWCC, that was added to the rulebook long before I joined. The problem is it doesn't work. It's hard enough hitting a destroyer-sized target, but try hitting a destroyer-sized target through the distortion and diffraction of waves and water and it's nearly impossible. Even if you hit, submarines have impenetrable decks. We've come up with other methods for dealing with submarines (there are three in the club, each with an impressive list of kills), and I even came up with a better depth charge simulator. Alas, the submarine skippers have been focusing on capital ships recently, so the subs haven't come out to play @Anachronous: There is a guy in the WWCC who built an APD. It was one of the purpose-built ships, not a converted flush-decker, and it is TINY. he actually ballasts it with .177" copper bbs! He also custom-built his own 2.4ghz controller, so he's got some really cool features thanks to that. I'll see if I have any photos of it.
Depth charging was a spotty business in the 1:1 world, no surprise here that it did not work in the 1:144 world. I would be interested in seeing the pictures of that APD, but no rush. Thanks
We count sinks usually. There are rules in place should we choose to run a campaign style game, we just haven't done it yet. Convoy ships would be out of place in most of our battles.
It is good to hear that you have some thing set up for convoy type battle. I wasnt sure being I had not heard of any convoy ships being built for treaty. Buddy
There have been 1 or 2 ships built but not run. Personally, if we never run campaign like we did in the IRCWCC I will be happier. Scenario battling should be interesting but driving a cargo ship between two points to get points...bleh. I dont think that's interesting at all.
There are a few that can run in Treaty right now. I'm sure all three exsisting Bearns are convoy capable. I would be interested in seeing a "Big Gun" type of battle format run with Treaty ships during a Treaty event. Would be itneresting to see how it turns out.
My reply was lost in space for some reason. In short.. We plan to have big-gun style battles in Treaty this year. So we will be needing all the various types of convoy ships. But I would have to say that the best convoy ship to build for Treaty would be something that could be armed sooner or later. Like the aircraft-carriers, AMCs, and such. The Bearns will really come into play in a battle like that. Mikey
Mikey, what do you mean by a "Big Gun" battle? Do you mean extended, multi-hour campaign battles? WWCC-style 15 minute sorties? Cargo is King? Last Man Standing? Charge of the Light Brigade? Big Bruiser Battle? We big gunners play a lot of different games, so a little more specifics would help clarify.
I was thinking of the long multihour type campaign battle. Kinda melding the small gun ships with big gun type battling.
Sorry. Like I mentioned.. I posted a nice long reply, but due to the slow connection or something, my first post was lost, and I didn't have time to re-write the entire thing. Basically, what we are planning is to have a Treaty battle, that is somewhat like the MBG big-gun style of battling. Where there is a start time in the morning, and an end time in the afternoon, with perhaps a break for lunch around noonish. With some convoy missions, shore bombardments, aircraft-carrier raids, and possibly even shore guns for defending the shore targets. It was great fun as there was pretty much non-stop action of some kind all day. There was some extra thought required for the convoy skippers, as they needed to pick and choose when to run the missions, depending on who was out there to protect them, and who was on the water for the other team to attack them. The aircraft-carriers were very active in this, as well as un-armed destroyers. Plenty of fun for everyone. Mikey
Of course, back to he core question as to best convoy ship..... The second post hit on two great ones - the small tramps 9which, built properly, have little above-the waterline penetrable area and are deucedly difficult targets, or, the other end of the spectrum, the large liners (depending on ruleset and scoring - they can be points magnets). Another thought is the Abdeil class fast minelayers, if allowed in your club. However, I would propose a different 'best starter convoy" - the DKM Kormoran. nice, reasonably sized freighter. And, being a commerce raider, some clubs (especially in Big gun) allow a fair amount of armament when you are ready to shoot back at an armed ship. I believe the general rule is that, if you are running it as an armed ship, you cannot score cargo points, but if you are only running it with the normal freighter armament, you can score cargo points (just turn off the torps and some of the guns). Or, that may be only in NTXBG. This allows a bit of mindplay (Am I pretty much sittting duck cargo ship, or, when you attack, are you going to get some torps back?). Even more possibilities if you have more than one on your team..... pretty easy to lose track of which of two virtually identical ships has a stinger and which does not (assuming only one of two is armed). Cheers,
Just a reminder that if your using your Sub its ballast tanks are open to the "sea" at the bottom with a hole and the top is skinned to be penetratable, if this area gets shot you will ROLL OVER at least on your side, and be considered sunk, even without a gun space it TIGHT in a submarine, it it very hard to trim on the surface and then submerged, you will find driving underwater VERY hard unless you are just under the surface and can see a antenna or something, which means everyone else can see it also, they will drive over it. if running on the surface your harder to hit and stability is easier to maintain but still tricky. I like a big transport (Nordmark) for the previously stated reasons, and it can play both sides (the British used her as Bulawayo after capturing her) she is in shape much like a Menoshi maru, but about twice the size. The Menoshi maru (plans available on this forum) is a great starting ship In IRCWCC we only use convoy ships in nats or regionals, as well as special club battles so you might now always get to battle her, and just sinking is not much fun either, you may want to consider something with a gun, because really your not adding much to the cost of a ship by adding guns except the gun and poppet costs, assuming you have a 4 channel radio for your boat already. (My Bismark a Class 7 IRCWCC ship is running 6 guns, on/off switchable pump, throttle, steering all with a 4 channel radio) Look around even if you use your eventual combat hull as a convoy at first (unarmed) you can later arm it and you will know how to patch really well and not have a huge cost to build a new boat, mearly add guns to a existing boat. I have a I-400 and it is one of the LARGER submarines out there, but there is not very much room at ALL in these boats. they are worse than a Distroyer for space and much more sensitive to rolling and pitching balence points. let me show you what I mean... Cheers from Canada /www.rcnavalcombat.com/Portals/0/ alt="" /> /www.rcnavalcombat.com/Portals/0/ alt="" /> /www.rcnavalcombat.com/Portals/0/ alt="" /> /www.rcnavalcombat.com/Portals/0/ alt="" /> /www.rcnavalcombat.com/Portals/0/ alt="" /> /www.rcnavalcombat.com/Portals/0/ alt="" /> p> hope that helps
