"So the Japs get hosed again" is NOT a helpful comment. If you don't like the rule proposal, then explain your point of view, and give a reasonable suggestion for an alternative. I make it clear every time I post proposed rules to add, that they are proposals, and that I am not a dictator of the rules, only the maintainer.
Well, this one has sparked some lively debate! I'm OK with either rods or balls. Personally, I'm building torpedo shaped rods out of plastic so they'll be light and hopefully float. We'll see how it does after I've actually got it working... I must say I'm torn on limiting the number of torps. As a IJN fan, I really don't care for the restriction. After all, it was the large torpedo battery that drew me to the IJN in the first place. Well, OK, that and the pagoda bridges. [] So I'm not thrilled with the idea of limiting the number of torps I can carry, but I do understand the reasoning behind it. So while I think I could live with this rule, I do think we could do better. It sounds to me like a lot of the problems seen in other clubs comes from the simultaneous firing of torpedoes. This "torpedo broadside" is certainly not scale behavior. Real torpedo launchers usually fired torps at 1, 2, or 3 second intervals, and it was rare to have multiple torp launchers fire simultaneously. You usually fired torps one a time -- this was especially true on subs. So perhaps a better choice would be to limit the rate of fire. This would prevent the horrendous torpedo broadsides that don't model real life while still allowing all torpedo tubes to be armed. So here's my proposal: 1) Torpedoes may only be launched from a vessel (surface or submarine) at the rate of one torpedo tube firing every second. 2) Vessels that carried reloads for torpedoes may contain reloading mechanisms, but all reloaded tubes must observe a reload time of 5 minutes. Comments? Concerns? Carl
" Japs hosed again, never changes from one set of rules to another." Another way to look at is that the Allies get hosed because they don't have nice oxygen filled torpedoes sitting around on the Japanese decks to shoot at and make them go BOOM! Honestly, I don't understand how the Japanese get hosed in any of the rulesets out there.
My torpedoes are in rotary canister guns I use a big gun 3 inch tripple for my torpedoes i rotate from side to side cut down on torpedo costs. I have no way to fire individual torps. As for the kitakame I have no problem with it, if it turns out to be a monster no one will go out with it problem solvedquote]Originally posted by dietzer Well, this one has sparked some lively debate! I'm OK with either rods or balls. Personally, I'm building torpedo shaped rods out of plastic so they'll be light and hopefully float. We'll see how it does after I've actually got it working... I must say I'm torn on limiting the number of torps. As a IJN fan, I really don't care for the restriction. After all, it was the large torpedo battery that drew me to the IJN in the first place. Well, OK, that and the pagoda bridges. [] So I'm not thrilled with the idea of limiting the number of torps I can carry, but I do understand the reasoning behind it. So while I think I could live with this rule, I do think we could do better. It sounds to me like a lot of the problems seen in other clubs comes from the simultaneous firing of torpedoes. This "torpedo broadside" is certainly not scale behavior. Real torpedo launchers usually fired torps at 1, 2, or 3 second intervals, and it was rare to have multiple torp launchers fire simultaneously. You usually fired torps one a time -- this was especially true on subs. So perhaps a better choice would be to limit the rate of fire. This would prevent the horrendous torpedo broadsides that don't model real life while still allowing all torpedo tubes to be armed. So here's my proposal: 1) Torpedoes may only be launched from a vessel (surface or submarine) at the rate of one torpedo tube firing every second. 2) Vessels that carried reloads for torpedoes may contain reloading mechanisms, but all reloaded tubes must observe a reload time of 5 minutes. Comments? Concerns? Carl [/quote]
Tugboat, I think you missed Takao's torpedo battery after her reconstruction. After reconstruction, the Takao class had 4 quad launchers (2 per side, so 8 tubes per side), with 8 reloads. So a 6 torpedo restriction hits the Takao class, too. I'm not too worried about having a smaller torpedo battery on the DDs like Shimakaze, because I was only going to arm 10 tubes (2 lauchers) anyways due to the weight. But I don't like the restriction for cruisers. Frog, I must confess, I had not considered the fact that someone would use a big gun style turret as their torpedo launcher. Very creative! It looks to me like we now have three types of torpedo systems in 1/96: 1) 1/4" rod 2) 1/4" balls fired using big gun style torpedo tubes (usually two 1/4" balls per torpedo) 3) 1/4" balls fired using big gun style turret So about the following as a compromise: B. TORPEDOES 1) Three types of torpedo launchers are allowed. 1a) Torpedoes may be constructed using 1/4" rods of scale length. Vessels armed with such launchers may arm all their tubes, but must restrict the rate of fire to one tube per second. 1b) Torpedoes may be constructed using the old single-shot big gun style torpedo tubes. These tubes may fire one or two 1/4" balls per torpedo. Vessels armed with such launchers may arm all their tubes, but must restrict the rate of fire to one tube per second. 1c) Torpedoes may also be constructed using big gun style turrets. These turrets fire 1/4" balls, but only one ball per barrel is fired at a time. Turrets must consist of 3 barrels or less, with each volley (single firing of all barrels) of the turret considered equivalent to firing a single torpedo. Only one launcher (turret) may fire at a time, and the vessel must restrict its rate of fire to one shot per launcher (turret) every two seconds. 2. All other aspects of construction of the torpedo are up to the captain. They can be of any material that is not harmful to the environment. 3. They must be fired from scale length torpedo tubes. 4. Torpedo tubes must be scale with regards to trajectory and elevation. 5. Torpedo propulsion can be CO2, compressed air, spring loaded, or electric. 6. Reload time for each torpedo tube is 5 minutes. This is to simulate the time it takes for the crew to move another torpedo into the tube and prepare it to fire. (Example: If a submarine has four bow tubes and two stern tubes, it may only make four bow shots and two stern shots within a five minute period). If the real ship had 'one shot' torpedo tubes that could only be reloaded in port (such as PT boats), then the captain may not reload during the battle. 7. If the captain has to manually reload, he must 'call five' and when his time is up, return to harbor and reload. He is not allowed to dump water from his boat while reloading This rule does not apply to 'one shot' torpedoes. They may only be reloaded between battles 8. You can use no more torpedoes in a battle then the real boat carried. I thought the 1c) fire rate should be slower since it's possibly the deadlier torpedo, firing up to 3 1/4" balls from 3 separate barrels at a time. Thoughts, suggestions? Carl
Seeing as how no one is actually building a super torpedo cruiser, I'm going to think about this for a little while. I do think 2 things are important. First, we are doing scale models, I'd prefer to have each launcher be it's own firing unit (i.e.- not one cannon to represent several triple launchers). Using one cannon inside a scale launcher to fire 3 torps worth of bearings from a triple mount is fine by me, I just think that using one centerline turret to work for a port-stbd pair would detract from scale appearance. Second, I think it's important that a ship wanting to arm torps have its main guns armed. Just me being silly, but I think its important to actually have guns that fire. No combat ship would have gone to sea and combat without at least a basic load for the cannons aboard.
Tugboat, I agree with both of your points. If the captain wants to arm a torpedo mount, the mount must be of scale size and in the scale location. So if the captain wants to use a big gun turret to represent a torpedo launcher, he can only use it to represent one launcher, as you said. I also think that no vessel should have more torpedo launchers armed than it has main guns/turrets armed. For example, I want to have a mix of guns and torps on my Shimakaze, but I don't want to arm the A turret because of the weight, only the X and Y turrets. So even though Shimakaze has three TT launchers, I should only be allowed to arm two of the three TT launchers because I'm only arming two of the three turrets. Carl
1b isn't possible to limit to one tube per second. These guns operate on the same principle as the standard big gun turret, except that the standard big gun turret is designed to rotate. One big valve fires all the attached barrels at once. It is possible to fire 30 or so barrels off a single valve, but it isn't as powerful per barrel as if fewer barrels were used. Three barrels (usually equivalent to a single torpedo mount) is what I consider the best amount for a single valve.
Carl, I Like this:I also think that no vessel should have more torpedo launchers armed than it has main guns/turrets armed. For example, I want to have a mix of guns and torps on my Shimakaze, but I don't want to arm the A turret because of the weight, only the X and Y turrets. So even though Shimakaze has three TT launchers, I should only be allowed to arm two of the three TT launchers because I'm only arming two of the three turrets. Also if you are going to use a Big Gun Tripple Cannon, mount it to the scale location and it can't rotate from side to side like in Big Gun. Stick with the Five Minute Rule for reloading and come up with a Official List ( I know I know another list ) of ships that carried reloads and the ships that were single shot only. I think there needs to be a limit on tubs per side but again tie them in to working and armed Main Guns , again my BIG problem was the 1 shot KO from a Heavy Armed Torpedo DD or Cruiser. Sharky
Hey... not to throw gas on the fire... but I've had a thought for 1/96 torps. Maybe they could use polypropylene tube. This plastic is lighter than water, and if the obstactles for having a rod hanging out of the victim boat can be overcome, it could be one way to investigate modeling torps. I think that as the boats will be larger... the secondary batteries will become more feasable. Hopefully the secondary batteries will be a deterent for torpedo runs against capital ships Mike3 Horne
That's what I'm hoping will be the case with Nevada. Fully armed trainable secondary battery to chase the icky torp whores away On the flip side, I've had trouble locating a battery small enough to fit inside a 1/4" tube. Anyone got any ideas? Or, failing that, how resistant to sulfuric acid is the polypropylene tube? I've looked at doing a small spiral-wound lead-acid battery to fit.
Hehehe.. nopers. One motor in each end of the torp, with its own prop. Lil scratchbuilt switch senses when it's left the tube and turns on the motors. A puff of CO2 kicks it out of the tube. Just need power for the motors. The props are 1/4" also, to fit int he tube without any fiddly folding prop bs. The design has pop-out fins (lil dinky ones) to aid in stablizing, as the stern prop will develop slightly greater thrust than the front due to hull effect at the stern.
Yeah, but I'm afraid that I'm really going to have to wind my own batteries. On the plus side, my motors are rated for up to 5V, so I can use 2 cells to give 4.4V, and runtime isn't a huge issue for a torpedo. If I treat torps like the USN does (the practice ones get taken apart and refurbed after use), then I can probably get away with sufuric acid in polypropylene tubes, and recycle the motors and lead (lead to a certain extent) between battles. If I was running a torp whore that'd be a nightmare (figure 4 battles over a weekend, full salvo per battle = 160 torpedoes to refurb!) On the plus side, the electric torps should have like 10-20 feet of range. I figure that I can test them in my pool the long way.
UPDATE: According to the Engineering Toolbox website, Polypropylene is safe with sulfuric acid as long as we don't get to rediculous temps, and even then, it's still okay for short term use. So, lil tiny spiral-wound lead-acid batteries are the plan.
Well since the Japanese had 24 inch torpedoes, and not 21 like everyone else, are their tubes going to be .32 inches, instead of .25. That way you can just use the AAAA battery. And they are rechargable. Or just make torpedoes .32 for everyone, as long as they fire powered torpedoes. It will make torps easier to make for sure.
