Bismarck Production Videos.... we're Back!

Please boomer don't get them started.

 

OK.....HERE GOES...........NEVER MIND...

 

Ther is a god.

 

I saw Craig's latest video annnnd. I LOVE THE MUSIC!! Noice very noice. Video was great too. I had a great laugh watching them. THE SPARROW IS BACK!! Thanks Craig.

 

Hey boys.... and gals out there.... just doing my bit to continue the tradition.... make everyone have a little bit more fun.... *sighs* I gotta get some sleep..... think you all can behave until morning? Curt, can you stop buying boats for a night?

Good night.... I'll see what you rascals came up with tommorrow afternoon.... be good.

 

Looking forward to when I can go to utube and look. Craig, whenever you done what you want to get done is fine with us down here, we have learned patience, Master solo.

 

Thank-you Jay and Curt.... will begin this week.

 

So....

Who do we have to butter up and plead with to get a condensed
version of your video footage (2 DVD set, Canadaian Nats 2008)
so we can drum up some interest down here and come and go Join
you this coming year, ummmm if we could get all our guys down
we would tripple the number of boats, ummm better only bring a few...

[][][]

 

That's me Bryan and I'll tell you what.... they are in the works... send me your address off list... I'll make it happen. I'll keep you informed of what is happening with the sponsership as well.

 

Craig,
I watched both Bismarck sinks and was very surprised at how suddenly the model sank. In the long video (the non-Bismarck sink one) you can see it's running with a slight trim by the bow, and may be a tad underweight - the freeboard's higher than I remember from Curt's Bismarck.

Curt's Bismarck didn't sink often but when it did it was obvious when the ship was about to go under. It would gradually settle on an even keel until the decks were nearly awash, then go down stern first.

In contrast, the Bismarck in the videos seems to have quite a bit of freeboard remaining though noticably down by the bow, moments before it rolls and nose-dives. With 10 secs left in one video I was thinking "There's no way it's going to sink by the end of the video." when it suddenly dove.

I haven't seen anything like that in a Bismarck Class model since Ralph Coles' 1997 Tirpitz. Though his model and Curt's Bismarck were both Swampworks kits they had quite different internal layouts and sank in completely different ways.

Like the Bismarck in the video, Ralph's Tirpitz had the pump aft and a slight bow heavy trim. It behaved in the same way too, suddenly capsizing and nose-diving when it looked like it wasn't ready to sink. Ralph's Tirpitz had a few problems that contributed to it's rapid sinks, while Curt's Bismarck could take far more punishment and stay afloat much longer.

Tirpitz had little if any water channelling, was slightly bow heavy and had the pump aft. What seemed to happen was that water began collecting forward where the keel was slightly lower, causing it to dip further. By the time the pump primed there was a lot of water aboard, most of it forward, and the model was well down by the bow.

In one of the older NABS videos you can see Ralph's Tirpitz in this condition as it begins to run into some waves. The bow dips and suddenly Tirpitz sinks exactly as Bismarck does in the Sept. 2008 videos, nose-diving and rolling when there seemed to be a lot of reserve buoyancy remaining.

Perhaps the new Bismarck model has similar problems. Checking the trim is advised. With the pump aft it may be better to have the model trimmed slightly stern heavy. Maybe the water channelling needs to be revised to direct more water aft to the pump before the bow gets too low.

Once the bow gets well down a slight speed reduction (i.e. in a turn) could cause the water in the hull to slosh forward and destroy the model's stability. I think that's what happened with Ralph's Tirpitz and the new Bismarck model, because both started to capsize the moment the bow dipped under.

However, being an Allied captain I'm probably wrong. Please disregard the above.

Bob

 

Bob the problem with this hull is that it very accurate and getting the trim right has been a nightmare. The amount of damage he took in the bow caused it took sink that way, he had a large hole in the bow area which took a while to patch.Damage to the stern will most likely not sink him due to how the boat sits in the water, mine also sit the same way in the stern. Curt has said that Ralph's hull is more accurate than the old swampy hull this may account for the difference.

 

Hey Bob. First of all, thanks for watching the vids, appreciate the support. Second...ummmmmmmmmmm, no. I will not disregard your opinion solely on the basis of you being allied. Your wisdom counts here Bob.

Good eye. I have to say though, the damage done to Bismarck was almost brutal. Nagato, in Steve Crane's hands, Yamato, in Chris Osborne's hands, (it should also be said both were the only captains not rookies and using ships they were familiar with)... went to absolute town on the bow of Bis. The duals of Yamato and the Dual sterns of Nagato raked time and again my ship with a punishment I have not had since NC got pulled over the lava by Yamato and Musashi.

I have watched the videos myself... more than a hundred times. It was amazing to witness, especially the last few seconds... when I failed to keep the pump going and decided to run... two mistakes. The bow was very heavy. You can see from the video maybe an inch above the water. I moved... and the ship in less than a blink of an eye, stunning both cameramen, dove beneath the waves.

Fairing much better on Day Two. Bismarck took only moderate damage and was never in any danger of sinking. It was a good trial run, and I have learned some things not to do. My biggest mistake was trying to stay toe-to-toe with both of those ships... I should never have attempted it but felt a little invincible using Bis. Don't know I guess it is just the ship.

I have taken all of the water channeling out already to do an internal refit. Funny thing, I was already thinking of a way to improve the channeling in the bow...

If there is anything else you can decipher, please, don't hesitate to fire off a salvo....errrr.... post... I meant post.

Thanks again.

 

In case anyone is interested I have a photo of 2
ships of this class floating side by side, the Tirpitz is alittle light in the bow (no Co2) but otherwise they are both at correct weight, (20oz co2 missing from Tirpitz)

http://groups.msn.com/OAF/battleseason2008.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=576

Good Luck[]

 

I finally get to see them!!![] Looked good too, glad you put issue of Bismarck. Steve Crane and I were watching and discussing the videos Mack took and we both thought Bis looked too high in the stern. We compared Bis's look to Scharnhorst's ( I know it's like comparing a Pinto to a Mustang)[] and Bis's arse is much higher out of the water than Scharnhorst's. It not only makes the pump less effective (remember Float-Move-Fight) but the stern guns shoot higher than I personally like. Just my opinion of course.
J

P.S. Craig- good job on the videos, and the song Rocks!![]

 

Well. Good stuff there PO. Glad you liked them.... as soon as the weekend hits... I might have some new inspiration. Wow... going to school takes a lot out of you.

 

Bismarck's trim was correct at the time of launch for both days. During the battle though the trim was shifted as more water began to pour in to the hull. Chris's Tirpitz was also sinking but was hardly moving and it was settling on an even keel. Craig's Bismarck was down by the bow because that was where the water was pouring in through a couple of dozen large holes concentrated on either side of the bow. If the model was able to get up to speed it would have possible remained trim as it was settling as the stern had hardly any holes and more buoyancy because of it. I have to point out that the model was very close to the shore and the tight quarters meant a lot of stopping and reversing. Any water that was poolin aft was shifting to the bow adding increased displacement in the bow and pushing it even further while at the same time it caused more water to pour in through the holes already there. Another thing is the pump was in a decent location but because of the cannon arrangement in teh stern it was not as far back as in my Old Bismarck's.It was also running off of one single battery and it was running down quickly. Add that by the time the half flooded Bismarc got up to speed the force of the water at the bow pouring in through basicaly destroyed panels just pulled the ship under.

Ralph's Tirpitz in the heavy waves was off trim at the start at the bow because of the bb ballast he placed there. That and the heavy waves the bow could not ride above the waves. The waves poured on and into the open barbettes pushing the ship under as it was moving. It sank very quicky and the pump was ineffective and not working at full power.

So what is the differnce between my OLD Swampy Bismarck and Ralph's Beautifuly accurate Bismarck? Plenty..
Lets start at the bow. The Swampy Bismarck bow is inaccurate.It is broader and rounder at the stem. This however seems to make the model cut through the water very well as it is like bulbous bow type effect. The bow itself rarely ever chips at the stem and is forgiving when it rams another ship.
The hull lines are not accurate. The location of the belt is a lot lower than Ralph's. The hull does not taper as sharply and the hull does not have the clipper sweep at midships rising at the stern. The hull is a little deeper but barely noticable.
The Swampy hull itself is very light.Ralph's is heavier. Whether that has something to do with it is debatable. The deck on my old Biz is 1/8 aircraft plywood(hobby)Craig used 1/4 in Sintra which is a heavy material. The Superstructure on the old Bis is high density foam lighter than balsa. Craigs is the new material that is very dense and heavy.

Internally the arrangement is completly different. My Biz uses the 2O oz bottle lying on the stbd side, a 12amp on the port side oppsite it and 1 6v12amp lying lengthways on the centerline beneath A and B turret. This arrangement has some unique advantages 1.WIth the bottle full the model's ballast leans towards the stbd side. As the bottle expends teh Co2 in battle the ballast begins to shift to the port side. My pump was located port side aft between C and D turret Barbettes. The hump in the middle of the hull created it's own waterchanneling as the water was forced down the bilge keels in the hull towards teh pump. My Bis has no watechanneling at all. The model was also trimmed a little ligt at the bow to allow water to flow to the stern. The shift in ballast meant that the holes near the waterline or on where sometimes lifted out of the water. 2. There is no weight or objects in teh bow of Bismarck ahead of Turret Anton. I just a hollow space nothing but air. That alone may explain why my Bismarck's bow is able to stay up longer.

So we have several ships that are Bismarck that look the same but definitly are not eh same in the way the hull performs in the water.

It was a shock to me to see how fast Craig's Bismarck sank but considering the pounding it took and the way it was played on day 1 and then day 2 was a completly different performance iT's understandable why the ship sank so fast. Nothing unusual about it. I seen Yamato sink really slow and other times sink really really fast. Depends on the damage and where the water is mostly concentrated in coming in.

More SINKS.. More Research....Looking foward to more R&D .

Cheers.

Adm Stokomoto


We trialed Craig's Bismarck in the swimming pool to take pics of the ship at trim with the internals and then ran the model around. Using a level we checked the trim at the bow midships and stern and it was dead on every time. We did the same with the superstructure on. The trim was correct.

 

I will find those Curt. For now I think points all around have been made. Really appreciate the feedback guys.

 

What about video disks captain?

 

Video Disks? Isn't that that a little outdated?

 

I mean a copy of the video for cannats. The raw footage. not the edited for tv stuff.