Brushless Propulsion 101

Discussion in 'Propulsion' started by mike5334, Jul 2, 2012.

  1. GregMcFadden

    GregMcFadden Facilitator RCWC Staff

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    The first step I usually do is isolate power for the signal side from power for the motor. Noise there can be a killer, particularly with cheaper electronics. What this means in practice is separate battery for the 5V servo voltage parts and the 6-12V motor drive parts of the system. I combine the ground and plug in the gang of capacitors I have used for a while to see if it kills the issue. if it does, it is a noise problem. the other problem that can happen and cause large amounts of grief is undersized batteries/wire/etc on the motor power line. motor turns on, pulls voltage too low for logic circuitry to work, esc gets confused. I treat the cheaper ESC's in particular with very deliberate care to keep any ESD at bay as that can fry them good and you may never find out why.

    best way to attack it is to think through the failure modes, attack them one at a time until only one remains
     
  2. jch72

    jch72 Active Member

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    Sounds like the symptoms I had when the signal wire from the esc to the receiver had an intermittent open circuit from a wire broken inside the insulation. Check that wire first. If you are using the same wire to program it it would explain why the programmer doesn't work as well. The manual is the same as the hobbyking 30 or 70 amp boat esc according to some of the comments on the hobbyking site. The beeping is a good thing, it means the esc is getting power and sending it to the motor, because it is actually the motor making the sound. The esc doesn't have a speaker. The beeping frequency may help you diagnose the problem.
    Ron Hunt
     
  3. Lou

    Lou Plastic magic -->> C T D <<-- Admiral (Supporter)

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    Kim,
    Did you get it working?
     
  4. moose421

    moose421 Member

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    I have my destroyer system working. Still a no go on the one for my Washington. I can't get the initial setup of the transmitter-esc.
     
  5. Tugboat

    Tugboat Facilitator RCWC Staff Admiral (Supporter)

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    With the card?
     
  6. moose421

    moose421 Member

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    I don't have a problem with the card. But my problem is when I try to set up the transmitter to the esc for the initial setup.
     
  7. Tugboat

    Tugboat Facilitator RCWC Staff Admiral (Supporter)

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    I'm confused. With the transmitter on, you power up the ESC, it makes a few beeps. What are you trying to do on the transmitter after this point? Endpoint adjust?

    Mine's more or less: set the settings with the card, plug ESC into the boat (motor and power leads), turn on the transmitter and then the boat, and it's good to go apart from setting max speed.
     
  8. radollar2000

    radollar2000 Active Member

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    I'm going to be building one of RCENGR's Golo kits. I'm looking at using a single 750kv outrunner w/ drive system to run both props. I'm hoping to use 9.6V system with undecided prop size and gear ratio. Any suggestions on the gear ratio? and where to get said gears???

    RCENGR- What are the largest props that will fit?

    links to the motor and esc I'm thinking of using:
    http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__8482__Turnigy_3639_Brushless_Motor_750kv.html
    http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__14630__Turnigy_TrackStar_18A_1_18th_Scale_Brushless_Car_ESC.html
     
  9. MasterClay

    MasterClay Active Member

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    I think it calls for 3/4 props if I remember correctly
     
  10. rcengr

    rcengr Vendor

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    3/4" props are the max that will fit.
    Your 750 kv motor is going to be too slow, even before gearing. Speed with that motor and 9.6 volts will be about 6500-7000 RPM. If you look at the thrust curve for the 3/4" prop in my other thread, that only amounts to about 2 oz of thrust / prop.I recommend a system that can hit about 10,000 RPM, which will give you about 4 oz thrust / prop.
    First, I recommend around 6 volts for your battery. The power requirements of the Golo are so small that going to a higher voltage won't give any benefits.
    For 6 volts I recommend a motor with a Kv of about 1500. If you want to stick with 9.6 volts, get a motor with a Kv of about 1000. Motors with these Kv's are much more common than 750 Kv motors so you should have no problem finding one. Try and pick a motor that is lighter than the one you listed - the Golo doesn't need the extra weight. Here's an example of one that might work: http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/...ch=park300 I have a couple of these on order to check them out for use in cruisers with 1.25" or smaller props.
    I get most of my gears at servocity.com, they have a good selection but not always for the shaft size we need. Check out your local hobby shop, if they sell RC cars they should have some in stock.
    The speed controller you listed will work. I have a pair of them in my USS Hawaii cruiser and battled with them last weekend. The only down side I've found so far is that the programing card will not set the reverse percent. To set that parameter you are forced to use the transmitter.
     
  11. Tugboat

    Tugboat Facilitator RCWC Staff Admiral (Supporter)

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    For fast gun, the convoy only has to get to 34 seconds. I'd think he could easily hit that with that setup; most convoys have been running brushed motors that don't hit 6000 rpm and they typically run small props.
     
  12. moose421

    moose421 Member

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    When I use the card it still requires an initial setup with the transmitter. I have a Futuba 6EX. I have tried to just start it up with the transmitter in the neutral postion. What the esc is looking for is end points of the gimbles. I have reversed the throttle as stated by all the HK products for the Futuba transmitters. I can get a setup for my pump but I can't get the reverse to work properly. I have set the programing with reverse and no delay brake.
     
  13. moose421

    moose421 Member

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    Worse thing is that I will have two spare esc for the pump and still have to get the esc for the drive motors. I have found a car esc that was very simple to setup. The track star series. I have this one in my destroyer. Only thing I had to do after using the programing card was to go into the programing mode to set the reverse to 100% It was factory set at 25% and the card didn't allow me to set that function.
     
  14. Tugboat

    Tugboat Facilitator RCWC Staff Admiral (Supporter)

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    Are you using (in the big boat) the basic HK car ESC (whatever the amp rating is), or something else?
     
  15. moose421

    moose421 Member

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    nope, the 50 amp boat esc from hk.
     
  16. Tugboat

    Tugboat Facilitator RCWC Staff Admiral (Supporter)

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    Ohhh... I always use the car ones. Too easy to waterproof and never a problem (apart from a few 100A ones). I use the 30A ones on battleships and cruisers alike. Sorry I can't be more help :(
     
  17. moose421

    moose421 Member

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    No problem. And HK tech support deserved to be b*tch slapped. No help. Hince why my old brushed system is in the Washington. I will be getting the trackstar car esc's.
     
  18. rcengr

    rcengr Vendor

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    I have one of the 50 amp HK boat ESCs. The card we had to program this series was dead, so I ended up programing it by transmitter stick movements. A bit of a pain, but it worked.
    When starting it up, where ever the stick was became the neutral point. So if you have the stick all the way down, you will not have any reverse. If you have the stick all the way up, it enters into programing mode. As long as I plugged the ESC in with the stick centered and waited for the arming tones, it worked correctly. As far as I know, it never required me to set the end points.
    Can you describe a little more what your setup is doing?
     
  19. Tugboat

    Tugboat Facilitator RCWC Staff Admiral (Supporter)

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    Get the regular car ESCs. They're plenty for our application and there's a fair bit of experience with them, so that if there are problems, you can get help. Unless you want to get on the bleeding edge so that we can call you for help :)
     
  20. mike5334

    mike5334 Well-Known Member

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    I have some Trackstars to put into convoy ships, plus a couple of the new waterproof escs from HK. Neither has been tested yet.

    Mike