Greeting guys, I found this ebay store that might help us out: http://stores.ebay.com/Russian-Books-and-Other-Items_W0QQfrsrcZ1QQfsubZ563888QQtZkm Most, if not all of the stuff is in Russian, however, most of these books look like they have pull out plans sections. Might be of great help to people like me that like oddball ships. I need to get the book on the Pelayo!
Better than nothing I suppose. The translations are a bit interesting. NB-I am leery of E-Bay and sellers in Russia especially
I ordered a set of plans out of Russia from somebody else, They showed up promptly and were very nice for the paltry sum of $15. The only downside is they are something like 1/200 scale. Browsing around I found about 5 different sets I'd like to order, but I'll probably order only 1 or 2 at first to inspect them.
Well I decided to give them a try. I ordered the booklet for the Espana class dreadnoughts, squinting at the pics in the listing, the book seems to contain some very detailed line drawings, including deck plans. The booklet seems to have been published by a Modeling Magazine, so I'm hoping its written with intention of building a scale model of the ship. I'll report back [8D]
Update: I recieved my Espana plans that I ordered from Russia. They are very good and appear to be from the Czech magazine "Modelist Constructor", the booklet contains numerous photos, diagrams, etc, and one two page plan of the ship including a decent body plan. It also includes things like machinery layout, deck plans, and plans of the armor. They are so detailed I expect them to be sourced from the original plans, and in cases prove both Jane's and Conway's wrong in different areas.... I have also ordered a set of plans for the British "Admiral" class of the 1880's, and I expect them to be just as good. Not bad at all for $20, but be patient if you order them, it takes a while to ship from Russia.
Good to hear. You will of course have to update your .sig now.[] If the "Admirals" are of the same quality I will have to get a set.
Keep in mind, Jane's uses info largely from the country of origin during the time period involved, so it's wrong a LOT. It's not intentional, just the reference material available at the time was incomplete/classified/or intentionally fudged. Keep in mind the Yamato was listed as only 45,000 with 16" guns until the end of the war by Jane's because she was a secret. (I have a 1943 Jane's. Really fascinating reading btw) Conway's is a good postwar reference and is fairly well researched. Not to say it's perfect, there's little errors here and there but its the best rounded reference I've come across. Course, I'd be interested in what it had wrong on Espana, since I have one. Looks like a lot of cool books though. I need to learn Russian! thx Jeff
I expect them to be very good. They are well researched enough to be two different sets, one for the first 3, and one for the last 3. The last 3 ( including Benbow [] ) are slightly longer and wider because of the increased length of the belt and thicker barbette plating. I ordered the set for the last 3, intending to build HMS Camperdown someday.
The errors: Jane's lists the ship as being equipped with submerged torpedo tubes, I can find nowhere on any of the deck plans a torpedo room, so I assume this is incorrect. Since they went to the trouble of showing where all of the bathrooms were, I doubt they would leave out the TT rooms. Janes also incorrectly shows the armor layout. Conways is almost correct, but again its description of the armor layout is vague and partially incorrect, as the belt armor is thinner than 4" on the upper bow. Admiraljkb, Where did you find Espana plans? I was unaware that any were availible before I purchased this set... On another note, the booklet I have lists the Spanish archieve that it got some the plans from, so there might be even more info out there for these ships.
Hey I have plans for HMS Victoria. Perhaps we could have a naval disaster one day. I guess I will break down and get an e-bay account. I would dearly love some Benbow plans at far less than the NMM rates.
If so... "it all your fault"... since your driving Tyron's ship [] Actually, having plans for Victoria gives you a leg up, her hull was very similar to the Admirals, if the Russian plans have any gaps the plans you have will likely help fill in any holes. These Russian plans just illustrate how if somebody wants to build a ship and Taubman or the "plans master" don't sell plans (or good plans) keep looking... lots of other sources out there if you keep searching. As for me, the hunt continues, Warship International Volume 44 Issue 1 has a huge article on the Espana class, I'm currently searching for a copy as a supplement to my Russian plans.
Mea culpa! Actually I remember reading some where that the underwater lines of the Admirals (or at least the earlier ones) are the same as the Colossus/Edinburough class turret ships. I would love to see a National Geographic/Discovery/History channel show where they dive the wreck of Victoria. She is standing on her bow. Embedded in the sea floor up to the main turret from what I have read.
George Goff has them. http://my.att.net/p/s/community.dll?ep=16&groupid=231663&ck= I double checked the Janes I have that is a compilation of WWI era Janes Fighting Ships. It's showing Torp tubes as none, but that doesn't mean that an earlier reference, or later reference wouldn't be wrong. Which Janes are you looking at? Cheers Jeff
Jane's 1914 shows it as having 3 IIRC, Personally, I like Jane's as a source, it has lots of good info in it too, I especially like the speed trials (once you throw out Fischer's total BS), I'd say the ones listing IHP output are probably fairly accurate. I just don't consider it a primary source. I haven't seen Goff's Espana plans, but I did order two sets some time back, one for the Texas and one HMS Agincourt, both are totally unimpressive to say the least. The Texas (New York) plans are obviously Weismesser (spelling?) plans redrawn in 1/144 scale, and the Agincourt plans look like they were redrawn from Conway's profile with the body plan pulled out of thin air... I'm crossing my fingers I'll find a copy of that Warship International (Volume 44, No. 1) to quadraple check all my info on Espana.
Jane's 1914. Ah. That was well before completion. It's possible torps were either part of the plan then and deleted during the war, or was a bit of misinformation put out by the Spanish Govt. I don't know. Looking through the three major plans for Espana in WI Vol44 No1, torps weren't ever considered. It is interesing to note one design variant that didn't get constructed which had mostly the same hullform, but had triple turrets fore and aft, a twin amidships, with all turrets on the centerline. Jane's isn't historically accurate due to it being filled with info generally from the Governments themselves. But it's generally accurate for countries that were more or less honest. It's a very interesting reference though, and probably the best currently reference available for current ship reference. For the past, it's a good historical viewpoint, and gives a glance into what was thought/felt about ships back then. I find that part fascinating, which is why I pickup old Jane's when I can. Conway's largely has the benefit of being produced many years after the fact when most of the ships information is mostly declassified. Hehe, I've got that one. Additionally Vol 44, #3 that I got this month has the Espana plans as a centerfold. woohoo, nice wing turrets! If you don't have a subscription to Warship International, I highly recommend one. http://www.warship.org. There are plans put in there all the time, along with some very interesting and many times obscure information on different ships. Cheers Jeff
One of the nice thing about the reprints of the early Jane's volumes that they did in the late 1960's was that they reprinted all the period advertisements. I have found the that all in one version for WW1 has some editing issues. Some of the USN entries were not included, the text was but not the illustrations.
Sometimes one of the originals will be up on eBay and it won't get bidded on. That's how I get mine. Nothing like that original old paper. mmmmmmmmmm mmmmmmmm [^] Yeah, the all in ones are less than optimal, but are ok overall for a quick and dirty compilation. They do seem slapped together. The ads are always interesting in and of themselves. Particularly in the older Jane's. The compilations are sorely missing those. Cheers Jeff
Admiraljkb, Wanna sell those issues []. After all, your Espana is already built... Actually I emailed the publisher about getting back issues... hopefully they will come through...
