Slightly offtopic... Katori, I was doing some net surfing here at work while bored and came across the following link in Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_Shimakaze_class_destroyer#New_Light_Cruiser_Kai-Agano_class While the super Shimakazes and Akizukis are interesting, it's the Kai-Agano reference that really caught my eye. I'd never heard of it before, and I like to consider myself relatively knowledgeable about the IJN. Looking at the stats that are posted there, it looks like it would be an absolutely viscious torpedo cruiser. I'm assuming she's probably not in Conways and thus not legal, but the ship itself looks interesting. Have you heard anything about it previously?
I just dug through my copy of Conway's, and couldn't find any mention of any of those ships. From what I see on Wikipedia, there is very little information on them. They are clearly hypotheticals, and since they are not even mentioned in Conway's, I would be hesitant about building one. If you can find statistics from a trustworthy source, and enough drawings to build the boat, then go ahead. Looking at the Kai-Agano, it appears to be either a super-Giussano or a mini-Mogami, depending on its machinery layout. If it's got tandem rudders, then it's a mini-Mogami, and will be a very effective combatant. If it's got a single (or in-line) rudder, then it's a super-Giussano, and will be best used for high-speed attacks with little maneuvering. It's definitely large for a torpedo-cruiser, so that gives it a leg-up when hunting other torpedo-cruisers, but I cannot predict how well it will turn, which is very important.
How would the Guissano itself hold up in combat? Edit - never mind, I was thinking of the Galissonniere, not the Guissano.
the Kai-Agano is listed on wiki as follows: -New Light Cruiser Kai-Agano class Shimakaze, Super Shimakaze and Super Akizuki were very high-speed destroyers in the IJN. Therefore, the IJN Combined Fleet wanted a cruiser which would lead them. The IJN Fleet Command planned a high-speed cruiser based on the CL Agano class. * Kai-Agano class cruiser (?????????) basic specifications o Project number: C44 o Displacement: 8,520 tons standard, 9,760 tons full load o Dimensions: Length Waterline 603 ft 8 in (184.0 m), Beam 53 ft 9 in (16.4 m), Draught 19 ft 3 in (5.9 m) o Propulsion: 3 shaft and 3 x Kanpon geared turbines, 153,000 shp o Max speed: 37.5 kt (69.5 km/h) o Range: 6,000 nm at 18 kt (33 km/h) o Complement: 832 o Fuel: 1,448 tons o Armament: 8 x 152 mm / 50 cal guns (4x2), 8 x 76 mm / 65 cal AA guns (4x2), 9 x 25 mm AA guns (3x3) and 8 x 610 mm torpedo tubes (16 torpedoes) o Aircraft: 2 x floatplanes and 1 x catapult
With the three shafts, they'd probably be fairly maneuverable. I'd assume single rudder based on the name kai-agano (Agano had a single rudder IIRC). There was a graphic in wikipedia of it, it basically looked like an Agano with 4 turrets instead of three. I'd just never heard of them at all before today, and was curious if anything else other then wikipedia (not exactly the most trust worthy source) was out there.
it had to come from somewhere. now where that somewhere is, is the issue. and for that i have no answer
If I was a betting man it would be from these two books.. Collection of writings by Sizuo Fukui Vol.4, Stories of Japanese Cruisers, Kojinsha (Japan) 1992, ISBN 4-7698-0610-8 Collection of writings by Sizuo Fukui Vol.5, Stories of Japanese Destroyers, Kojinsha (Japan) 1993, ISBN 4-7698-0611-6
Those two books were listed as references in the article. One would think that there would have been more out there though if they were really a serious contender for being ordered or laid down. It's far easier to find information on the German spahkruezer or even the Japanese B-64 battlecruisers then there is on these little things. These I had simply never heard of.
Spahkreuzer was a super-destroyer, not a mini-cruiser. If you have any doubts, compare Spahkreuzer's hull shape and armament to a contemporary German destroyer, and also to a contemporary German cruiser. It has almost no relation to the Hipper other than the flag it flies.
I kno, i meant more in another way. Bigger then previous of the same type, big torp load, cool looking. i kno it wasnt a cruiser, but that it was a miniature (destroyer) version of the large cruiser.
It wasn't related to the Hipper in any way. It only had 3 main battery turrets, two funnels, smaller guns, a large torpedo load, diesel engines, long range, very fast... Aside from a German battleflag and Atlantik bow, there isnt much the ships actually had in common.
I understand guys that they werent related, but look at them, they are larger then average in their type with large torpedo loads, thats all. I kno they werent the same or even close, just saying the Spahkruezer reminds me of a mini-Admiral Hipper.
That sounds good, as I prefer allied ships. However, how would she compare to the other French cruiser I was considering, the La Galissonniere? The Galissonniere is smaller but faster and has 9 8 inch guns to the Suffrens 8 8 inchers, though do to her size I don't think I could arm them all. Also, she carries 4 torpedoes to the Suffrens 6.
I see the Suffren clocking in at 33 knots trial speed in Conway's, and La Galissonniere measures 36 knots. Looking at them, though, I find myself wondering why either of them is more interesting than the Emile Bertin. One has the torpedoes, but lacks the speed. The other has the speed but lacks the torpedoes. Emile Bertin has both. Looking at it from the gun perspective, though, again you fall short. One has the size, but lacks the density of firepower, the other has the density of firepower but lacks the size. Also consider the Duquesne class, prequel to the Suffren. Trial speed 35 knots, listed speed 33 knots, same guns as the Suffren, and triple torpedoes. Not only that, its dimensions are very close to those of the Suffren. propulsion layout is different, four shafts and dual (in line) rudders with lots of surface area vs Suffren's three shafts and much smaller single rudder. Hey, looking at it, I'd bet the Duquesne handles almost as well in reverse as it does in forward. Now there's a French heavy cruiser I'd consider.
Some info on the French cruisers. Duquesne 35 knots, 4 shafts, dual (inline) rudders, 6 TT, 8 x 8" guns. Overall length 626' 8", beam 62' 4". Suffren 33 knots, 3 shafts, twin (tandem) rudders, 12 TT, 8 x 8" guns. OA length 643', beam 65' 7". The light cruisers. Emile Bertin 39 knots, 4 shafts, single rudder, 6 TT, 9 x 6" guns. OA length 580' 8", beam 52' 6". Gloire 36 knots, 2 shafts, single rudder, 4 TT, 9 x 6" guns. OA length 588' 11", beam 57' 4". Mikey
