Current Roster of Cannon Builders 2-2-14?

Discussion in 'Weapons & Pneumatics' started by AP, Feb 2, 2014.

  1. AP

    AP Member

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    Is there comprehensive list of cannon builders for Big Gun on this site, or elsewhere? I looked through this thread and, unless I missed it, the last replies for something like this were from 2010.
     
  2. jstod

    jstod Well-Known Member

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    Currently there is no consistent cannon builders. There are a few here and there that can and have built cannons. For example there are 3 or 4 in WWCC. The issue is these guys don't have the time needed to put together the guns. You can get lucky if you find someone willing but until Strike gets their cannon production up and running there wont be any real consistency. :/
     
  3. AP

    AP Member

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    I see. Thank you. Much like just after Mr. Neubauer died, rest his talented soul. It was difficult to get anything except maybe through BDE.

    I'm playing with canister ideas again, but I keep hitting that wall - the one with the sign that says, "You WILL go bat crazy if you peruse this. Stop now or you'll be sick like last time you fool."
     
  4. AP

    AP Member

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    I see. Thank you. Much like just after Mr. Neubauer died, rest his talented soul. It was difficult to get anything except maybe through BDE.

    I'm playing with canister ideas again, but I keep hitting that wall - the one with the sign that says, "You WILL go bat crazy if you peruse this. Stop now or you'll be sick like last time you fool."
     
  5. jstod

    jstod Well-Known Member

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    You know there are a couple guys in WWCC I know of playing with different cannon designs. One guy in particular named Sparky, built a working "stomper" cannon as well as a few, I believe they are called, negative pressure cannons? (I believe it was him anyways and forgive me if that is not the name) Which are currently operated in an Iowa. Also hear he and a couple of others are working on breach loading cannons. Lots of cool stuff coming up if they can get them working consistently.
     
  6. AP

    AP Member

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    If I can just figure out how to get a line to a rotating manifold/magazine, without binding, I think I'll have a winner. But controlling depression servo cables is battle enough, without having to worry about high pressure lines fighting the command to move orderly.
     
  7. jstod

    jstod Well-Known Member

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    you know if you start a thread on here specifying what you are trying to do you might be able to get some new ideas on how to make it work.
     
  8. Gascan

    Gascan Active Member

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    The Stomper is a type of negative pressure cannon. A cannon that fires when pressure is released from the firing line is a negative pressure cannon. A canister cannon has a short, large diameter accumulator concentric with the magazine. They tend to run into height issues and have more force applied to the joint between accumulator and valve due to the larger diameter. The advantage is a less convoluted air path, so you don't lose as much energy before the air gets to the balls. The standard Indiana cannon fires when positive pressure is applied to a MPA-7 actuator. The accumulator is relatively long and small diameter and laid out 90 degrees to the magazine. The Stomper was a four barrel negative pressure canister cannon that closed the breech by moving the whole magazine down when it fired. Its very cool, but you need to be a skilled machinist to make one.

    For the most part, the problem is not the cannon design (sure, thee are improvements and tweaks and such, but the design is good enough for our purposes). The problem is finding a machinist/hobbyist skilled enough and dedicated enough to make that many cannons.

    I wonder if it may help to route your air hose in a coil. As the cannon rotates the coil will expand or contract rather than twist. Most cannons rotate 180 to 270 degrees or thereabout, so you don't have to deal with multiple turns.
     
  9. AP

    AP Member

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    Hi Gscan. Imagine a canister gun with rotating magazine. Getting a line to the magazine as it wanders around in a 270 deg arc is as or more than problematic as controlling the depression servo cable. I'm toying with the idea of a spring loaded reel to pay it out and pull it in as needed, to keep it from getting caught up in the rotation cables, but space is an issue. The purpose of it is to operate the breech in such a way that a misfire due to pressure loss results in a blank shot. Safety development.... But controlling that line is key, for each turret.

    I gotta do some drawing this weekend.
     
  10. AP

    AP Member

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  11. AP

    AP Member

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    ..multiple post copies.... Deleted.
     
  12. jstod

    jstod Well-Known Member

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    Ok bare with me but what if you have your accumulator directly underneath the magazine with the entire magazine rotating on a bearing just like a standard big gun cannon would but your firing mechanism would be in the magazine in the form of a sliding breach that is actuated the same way as the normal cannons only this one would push the breach to line the bearing up with the barrel which releases the co2 in the accumulator. My describing abilities are subpar I know. This is not my own idea either I found it on this site: http://www.rcwarships.com/rcwarships/ To get to the picture of what I am attempting to describe go to the link, click New - 11/27/2011, Then click the link for Project California, Lastly click the link Secondary Armament. The drawing is at the bottom of the page. Sorry for some reason a link directly to the page is not available.
    Would this work?
     
  13. AP

    AP Member

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    It's actually a bit more traditonal than that. The magazine does sit above the accumulator, separated by a bearing, yes. But the firing mech, which is a negative pressure valve, sits in the center of the accumulator. So, as far as supplying gas that pressurizes the accumulator and doubles as the firing circuit, there is no deviation from the early canister guns.

    The breech mech sits in the magazine. I have the option of using a passive closing mech that operates only when the accumulator has "passed gas", or an active breech that closes before the accumulator lets loose. This second option is what I really want, but it requires a pneumatic signal to be received by the breech system before the gun is actually fired.

    The means of supplying that signal is my little problem. Gettin a line to it, in a way that precludes binding, or interference with internal structure and rotation mechs, is the challenge. I came up with a few novel ideas, but they don't survive miniaturization very well. A device that pays out line as the mag rotates would be nice. Spring actuated retract, such that there is tension on the line as it wraps around the magazine would be nice. But it requires a spool, a groove on the mag body, and a rotating connection. I suppose a cable deck would work, like described in the Naval War College, but while that works fine for rotation cable, I'm not sure it would play well with hose.

    Going to toy with some seed thoughts and see if they go anywhere. If I were to rotate the ENTIRE cannon, I might be able to develop a pass through fitting, but then the support structure grows and the thing gets taller - and might be too tall for the split deck OBBs this gun is meant to empower.
     
  14. jstod

    jstod Well-Known Member

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    with the extra height being an issue could you not utilize the rule (assuming use of WWCC rule) allowing for extra hull depth?
     
  15. AP

    AP Member

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    I could go deeper on the hull, but performance would suffer. I am an old purist, too. I like scale....
    looking again at the design height with bearing included, relocating the bearing to the bottom might not be such a difficult thing. It might even strengthen the base of the accumulator.
    Then I could run a pair of lines into a core rising into the accumulator, one blindly feeding the beast, and the other running up to the magazine. Hmmmm. Look at the California main armament page. The side view of the Mk-IV shows a bearing in the middle of the stack. Put it on the bottom, and the height only changes as needed to put a pair of turrets on a mouthing plate with room to get a pair of lines under it. Keep it under 3.2" and it might work. Need cheap bearing, though, and at least 2.5" wide, for stability. Would have to drive the rotation close to the bottom to limit angular torque... Just rambling here. Helps to work things out.
     
  16. jstod

    jstod Well-Known Member

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    I am with you there, not a big fan of allowing larger ships use it. The some small boats really need it tho.
     
  17. AP

    AP Member

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    I guess I need a bearing catalog.

    The rotating fitting only sees pressure when firing, so maybe the quick disconnects, which twist rather nicely, could be used. It's. Its not too often that a cannon fires AS is it rotating. Pull the twist lock cage halves off the fitting, and they are fairly petite. Mounted properly, there shouldn't be too many alignment issues during servicing.
     
  18. jstod

    jstod Well-Known Member

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    I am trying my best to picture what you are describing. got any drawing of it?
     
  19. SteveT44

    SteveT44 Well-Known Member

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    Just wondering but what's the market rate for BG cannons? How much would one expect to pay for a triple 1/4" for example?
     
  20. AP

    AP Member

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    Jstod - the secondary page you referenced also has a main armament page. That Mk-IV is the basis. Move the bearing to the bottom. As for the rest, it's all in my head - just like the doctors have been telling me for years.

    Steve - I have no idea what the market for these things looks like, but I will guess about $150 per turret, and good luck finding a builder.