if the defining drag prop to include disks would pass, then it doesn't require a new rule, only an interpretation of the existing rule. If the club doesn't like the interpretation, then the club can vote to change the rule.
Hopefully the Eboard puts out a ruling making the changes I've specified above, but if not somebody should propose a rule change. I was thinking of doing it, but I won't be going to nats so it would be better if somebody else that was going did it.
Not sure why this needs to be debated again. It was done before and done fairly well. Just use this... 4) The ship shall be equipped with a scale number of shafts. Each ship must have a scale number of props. Non-powered props must be the same size or smaller than the powered props. a) In addition to non-powered props, one speed trim disk may be used on each non-powered shaft. b) If a ship does not have any unpowered shafts, one speed trim disk may be used on each powered shaft. c) Speed trim disks must be circular, flat, may not exceed the diameter of the drive props, and must be center mounted. Speed trim disks may not be any type of device that is designed to create variations in drag force from one direction to another. i) Some examples of prohibited devices are: cups, domes, hinged disks, hinged flaps, etc. d) Props on all powered shafts must be the same diameter and pitch and have the same number of blades. i) Props used only to reverse the ship may be smaller, have fewer blades, and less pitch than the props used for forward propulsion.
I thought this started about drag props on powered shafts, which I do consider not consistent with the rules. Now we are talking about the drag (props?) on the un-powered shafts. When I joined the IRC we could reverse the props on the inside of a turn.. Then some one hiked the voltage on the turning motors and they were made illegal. Drag (disks, Props) are helpful, but somewhat self regulating in that if they are too large they cover the "real" props and have the opposite effect for which they were intended. They have been in the hobby for many, many years and I think that you would have a hard time getting rid of them. Concentrate on what can be done and leave the rest alone. IMHO Marty
This is not being 'debated again'. As far as I am aware, the IRCWCC never had this debate resulting in the rule you spelled out. You may be thinking of another club which does not exist. However, 4) The ship shall be equipped with a scale number of shafts. Each shaft must have a single prop or drag disk. a) Non-powered props must be the same size or smaller than the powered props. A shaft mounted with non-powered prop may also have drag disk, so long as the disk is touching the non-powered prop. b) Drag disks must be circular, flat, may not exceed the diameter of the drive props, and must be center mounted. Drag disks may not be any type of device that is designed to create variations in drag force from one direction to another. c) Some examples of prohibited devices are: cups, domes, hinged disks, hinged flaps, ham sandwich, pants leg, parachute, etc. d) Props on all powered shafts must be the same diameter and pitch and have the same number of blades. e) Props used only to reverse the ship may be smaller, have fewer blades, and less pitch than the props used for forward propulsion. Basically, I removed the stuff about having to have an actual prop on each shaft so you can just replace it with a disk instead. Also changed 'trim disk' to 'drag disk'. (trim disk implies you are trimming speed, which I am not, radio / esc does that) You see, Bob, I don't have props on my unpowered shafts currently. I don't want to have to make changes to my boat when the boat doesn't match the rules. Someone else has said it before, can't remember who.... also, making folks buy/build extra props, just for aesthetics seems rather petty. Also added additional items to the 'prohibited list' *EDIT* Bob, you are more than welcome to submit a rule proposal. You don't even have to snail mail it. ircwcc.secretary@gmail.com Trey
Well, I work on the computer all day long in my job. Instead of "smoke breaks" or talking at the "cooler or break room" I like to check out the forum. My boss tends to not like me building the boat at work, go figure.
Mostly. Only 2 ships running right now while I build a 3rd, make a few hulls, plan a new DN, refit 2 cruisers... See you at the lake
Sorry, how can you interpret a flat disk to be a propeller? Why don't you do it the right way, instead of trying to take a short cut?
It's the accepted interpretation among many. It's in the bylaws that the E board can make such an interpretation. If you don't like it, change it.
I'm concerned about the ham sammy prohibition here, would it also cover dragging a rack of pork ribs? The real question: I print and use drags that are an integrated disc and prop. Under a proposal such as this, would that be considered a drag disk + prop, or would it be considered a drag disk that fails to be flat? (Basically: would I need to cut the disk free to be legal to be legal?)
They are not passing that, just interpreting that a flat disk is the same as a propeller. Under their interpretation, anything will now be legal, over-sized, sloped, hinged. If they took the few minutes to write a rule, which would pass with 80 to 90% most likely it would solve the issue.
Now, Dave! I don't consider hinged drags to be legal and the sloped might be questionable. But they would run afoul of other rules considering speed in forward and reverse. IMHO Marty
Such things will only happen if you take action. Write one up yourself. I would, and still might, write up the rule proposal if nobody else feels inclined. I'd rather not be the one since I won't be at Nats to defend it, but I'd be happy to coauthor a proposal with somebody that's going.
I fine with how it is, I don't think we should be using drag disks, how are they semi-scale? But if there was a rule that allowed them, then fine that's what the club wants. But the rule needs to be changed before they would be considered to be legal.
Lets look over what the Executive Board can and cannot do? Executive Board Powers! ARTICLE V-EXECUTIVE BOARD; DUTIES C. The Executive Board shall: The 2 statements in the By-Laws that are pertenent. 3. Provide necessary interpretations of Club Rules in the event of a disagreement between two or more interested members. All Rule interpretations by the Executive Board shall be officially recorded and placed on the Club’s web site for viewing by the members. D. The Executive Board may temporarily modify the Battling Rules or Construction and Classification Rules when reasonably necessary to address or correct a safety concern. Any modifications to these Rules shall be recorded and placed on the Club’s web site for viewing by the members, and submitted to the members for approval at the next annual Rules Meeting. Definition of Interpretation - The action of explaining the meaning of something. Not adding or modifying as Trey is proposing the Executive board do. Actual written rule. Its surprisingly is one of the clearest written rules, yet Trey thinks the Executive board needs to interpret it for us. C. SCALE AND PROPORTIONS 5. Each ship shall be equipped with the proper scale number of shafts, propellers or drag props, and rudders, all in relatively scale locations. So what needs to be interpreted in this rule. What does Trey not understand? 1. Proper scale number of shafts. a. If the boat has 1 shaft, you can put 1 shaft in your boat. Simple enough. b. If the boat has 2 shafts, you can put 2 shafts in your boat. c. If the boat has 3 shafts, you can put 3 shafts in your boat. d. If the boat has 4 shafts, you can put 4 shafts in your boat. Very simple, and clear, Who does not understand how many shafts your boat can have? 2. Proper scale number of propellers or drag disks. a. If the boat has 1 propeller, you can put 1 propeller in your boat. Very clear. b. If the boat has 2 propellers, you can put 2 propellers in your boat. c. If the boat has 3 propellers and/or drag props, you can put 3 propellers and/or drag props in your boat. d. If the boat has 4 propellers and/or drag props, you can put 4 propellers and/or drag props in your boat. Again very simple, and clear, Who does not understand how many propellers and/or drag props your boat can have? 2. Proper scale number rudders. a. If the boat has 1 rudder, you can put 1 rudder in your boat. b. If the boat has 2 rudders, you can put 2 rudders in your boat. c. If the boat has 3 rudders, you can put 3 rudders in your boat. It appears the rule does not need any interpretation, everything in it, is very clear. So why does Trey think it needs to be interpreted? He wants it to be legal without making a rule change, so that we can use drag disk's. But the rule clearly does not allow them. If you look at By-Law - ARTICLE V-EXECUTIVE BOARD; DUTIES, D. It clearly states that the Executive board can temporarily modify the rule when necessary to address a safety concern. Using a drag disk is not a safety concern. The Executive board does not have the authority to make rule changes unless it is a safety concern. This is no different, than when Rob decided that rotates must be RC controlled, but did not have the authority to make that call. So in conclusion - The club needs to change the rule, if they want to add drag disks. Using the By-Laws do not allow Trey to make a interpretation to change the rules the way that he wants. The By-Laws are written much better than the rules. Now we need to follow those also.
