Dual Extruder Printer…?

Discussion in 'Digital Design and Fabrication' started by JustinScott, Oct 14, 2022.

  1. JustinScott

    JustinScott Well-Known Member

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    I’m tired of:
    - using the printer at the MakerSpace
    - removing print supports and how ugly that makes the product
    - failed prints after 5+ hours

    Therefore I’m thinking I want a dual extruded printer, with water solvable filament. (I found a liquid dump facility 20 mins from home.)

    I perceive the Ultimaker s3 as the best option, but it’s like $5k. Is there another dual on the market that would be worth considering?
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2022
  2. Boatmeister

    Boatmeister Active Member

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    You married? :laugh:
     
  3. bsgkid117

    bsgkid117 Vendor

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    I print *a lot*. I buy filament in bulk spools. I print parts not only for model warships, but I print and sell parts for old bluebird busses, Jeeps, etc. I, no lie and not trying to be snide/pompus/etc, probably print more than most of this forum combined. My printers are either running or broken.

    I don't have any of these issues with my two pretty plane jane cartesian printers. Removing supports is easy if you have the printer tuned right, and will often not even leave a visible trace on my prints. I haven't had a failed print that failed after X hours in years. I've had stuff fail early due to machine issues (hotend worn out and throwing overtemp errors stopping the print, etc).

    If you want some pointers/advice, let me know. You do NOT need to buy a $5k printer unless you just want a $5k printer...which I also understand. :woot:

    Before you fork over that kinda $$, look at something like the Prusa XL with dual-extrusion. Yeah sure its still $3000 but that's better than freakin $5k.
     
  4. JustinScott

    JustinScott Well-Known Member

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    Yeah... And I want to keep it that way by not spending 8hrs at the MakerSpace multiple times per week!
     
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  5. JustinScott

    JustinScott Well-Known Member

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    At MakerSpace, everything's already "set up" for you. However, IF I could adjust it, what settings am I changing to make the supports not noticeable?

    Yes please.

    I simply want to print.

    The less frustration and cost to make that happen the better. :)


    Is the Pruss XL available? I though that wasn’t until next year.

    Also, I'm not seeing a dual extruder option on any Prusa? Or am I missing something?
     
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2022
  6. Commodore

    Commodore Well-Known Member

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    And here I am "just printing" with my ~1K Prusa MK3 ...

    Although, I have to say, for the price, the Prusa Mini is very very nice. If I were starting over, I would probably start with one of those.

    Yeah, supports are still a bit of a pain, but they're usually not that much of a bother, and come off nicely.

    Evidence:

    IMG_8084.jpg

    Yes, that's more than once piece there - also, I was a bit casual about removing the supports, this was mostly a "test fit" prototype. Turns out ... it fits.

    Oh, and yeah, everything from the conning tower down is a single piece. Go figure.
     
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  7. Xanthar

    Xanthar Well-Known Member

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    @Commodore : That looks nice : )
    @JustinScott : You don't really need a dual extruder setup and they have their own headaches. Supports can be a challenge but, if you spend a little time you can often design your own and get them to snap or peel off.
    I did that on my I-boat hull to support the inside edges and faces of the ribs. After a little bit of tweaking, they worked great.
     
  8. Commodore

    Commodore Well-Known Member

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    Thankee - I try. Or something like that. Hopefully I'll wrap the rest of it up and post it here sometime soon. It's supposed to be an early Christmas present for a friend (they know who they are), but I figure I might as well make it Christmas for everybody. Whee!

    But yeah, anyway, it's been a bit of a problem child, because of poor plans (a certain Floridian whom I shall not mention), and trying to use the WoWS models is a pain in the behind. Thousands (literally) of vertices that lead nowhere, or conflict with each other. Yay.

    Anyway, like I said, It's getting to where I'm almost "happy enough" with it. At this rate, if nothing else, I'll be happy to be done with it.

    :p
     
  9. bsgkid117

    bsgkid117 Vendor

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    So first things first, you need to properly calibrate your printer. Whatever it is you get. You need to calibrate E-steps. You need to calibrate flow rate for expansion/contraction. I print *only* one specific brand of bulk ABS filament so I dialed my printers in years ago and haven't messed with them since. Depending on your eventual printer, there are different instructions for these processes. After this, once again for each specific filament your specs will be different, you need to print a temperature tower to figure out what gives you the best results. I normally print at 250c first layer, 240c after that. This is ABS, so 0% cooling fan...but theres a catch I'll get to in a second.

    Heres a website that was put together on my specific printers with a basic calibration guide: Artillery Sidewinder X1 Calibration Guide | 3D Print Beginner

    Now, you've done all the machine/filament calibrations. Now what? Now's time for the stuff you'll learn as you mess around and figure it out. I like to print at .5 line width, not only does this provide nice even .5/1/1.5/2 etc wall thicknesses, it also helps with overall print quality. Some slicers will default your line width to your nozzle diameter (.4 for a .4 nozzle) but generally going up to 120% of your nozzle diameter is acceptable.

    Layer heights. I like to work in even .4 multiples, so I print at .2 or .32 layer heights 99% of the time. I'm normally printing larger items, so I want them done in the next decade, which means printing the largest lines with the largest layers so .5 line width with .32 layer height using a .4 nozzle on my Volcano hotend moving at 100mm/s.

    Easy to remove supports? If you've done everything up to this point, calibrated the machine, etc, the trick here is your support interface, support density, support type, and support Z gap.

    Support Type: I almost *never* allow supports to be printed ontop of a printed object. So if there is an area where the print overhangs itself, either I will orient the print to remove the need to support that area, or I will use a "tree" type support that can come in from the side and support that area. Supports touching buildplate only is my rule.

    Support Interface/Density: Make sure that your slicer is generating a support interface, generally its a dense criss-cross pattern that is printed directly between the actual supports and the printed object. This makes a dense "cradle" to allow the hot filament to bridge the overhangs easier vs whatever the density is of the support. This also allows me to run much lower density supports and still have good overhangs. I generally never use over 10% support density, and for "tree supports" I actually use 0% so it prints the tree as if in vase mode.

    Support Z Gap: My general rule of thumb is make sure this setting is 2x your current layer height. For .2 height, .4 z gap. For .32, .64 z gap. This leaves enough of an air gap that the supports generally easily snap out as 1 giant piece with minimal adhesion to the print, but still providing great overhangs/bridges.

    Now remember how I said there was a catch I was gonna get to? I print ABS, which means 0% cooling fan 99.9% of the time. For that .1%, I use a bridging fan setting. Most slicers will have this, some may call it something else. It engages the cooling fan only when it detects overhangs/bridges. I have this set to 100% cooling fan. This + the support settings I've listed gives me great results, and the supports are always easy to remove unless something on the printer is acting up (hotend thermal creep, etc).
     
  10. darkapollo

    darkapollo Well-Known Member

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    I print a lot. Single extruder Ender 3. I use the base profile in SuperSlicer and the supports come off clean. No need for a 5k printer or over priced prussa. A $200 Ender with a BLTouch will give you years of reliable printing.
     
  11. Commodore

    Commodore Well-Known Member

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    BTW, I've posted that Nassau superstructure in the Resources stuff. Maybe I should make a "new" thread for it. Maybe tomorrow, we'll see.
     
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