also can depend upon the angle of the prop shafts (if they are too deep they can push the stern up and the bow down.
Yeah, no can do without batteries. besides, if it is doing that at anything approximating three miles an hour, something is terribly wrong. the boat is simply too low in the water. Looking at the scale waterline, there is no comparison. the casemates are awash when the boat is still, with millpond-calm water. this is not scale. if the real Texas did this, it would be a monitor.
Again, not the props. the casemate deck is awash when she is at a dead stop with not a ripple on the pond. she has a good aft profile when at speed, until the bow wave piles and she takes a dive. when at 25 pounds, the boat operates properly.
There is usually a happy medium when it comes to weight, so keep testing and see what it is, consider smaller adjustments. You will also want to consider how the boat handles with some water in it, generally the amount of water it takes for the pump to prime well. Few class 4/5 boats are great at max weight, especially ones with tubby hulls. Generally you should never take your batteries all if the way down, it risks damaging them
Okay, I still have a fair amount of power in the batteries, but not enough to run the pump and motors at the same time. I'll let them be until the charger gets here. After taking a second glance at my replies, sorry @rcaircraftnut and @warspiteIRC if I came off a little snippy. that wasn't my intent. The Ladyfriend hit me with "would you be okay if I dated other men while we're still together?" last night in the middle of responding, so things got cut a little short. Saint Paul Minnesota generates some weird stuff. What I failed to explain (again, sorry), is that the behavior of the boat had also changed with regard to how it reacted under power, and at rest. The waterline (bottom of the tape) in the following pic is set at the "unloaded" scale displacement, ie: the minimum the boat should draw at scale. the waterline at 27.2 pounds was the top of the tape. at about 25, she is sitting about 1/4 inch above the "scale minimum" waterline, which, when I was running her there, was pretty good. She handled well, and looked like she should be parked in front of the San Jacinto Monument. when cruising at 25 pounds and below, she had that characteristic stern dip, in which the props digging in would cause the stern to dip slightly. the bow would not rise. this is normal behavior. at 27.2 pounds, there was no stern dip. the boat remained at a "U.S.S. Nevada after taking a load of bombs and running aground in the harbor", and she was effectively plowing through the water instead of gliding, or sailing, or cutting, or whatever. with that bulbous ram prow, it should be expected, especially considering how bulbous I left the tip of the ram. So, like a snowplow, the water was building up in front of the prow until it reached a critical point and drove the bow under. eventually I might take a sander and recontour the bow, but if it works at a lighter legal weight, I see no utility in doing so. I'll dial back to 25 this weekend, and work with the ballast until I find a nice spot where the boat performs well.
No worries brother. I didn't think you were snippy. But I ain't a snowflake that gets offended easily either lol.
From the pictures it looks like your bow is more blunt than scale. That could be a factor as well. Blunt bows push instead of cut. However, they create extra resistance to forward motion which means more power applied for a given speed and better turning. Good luck finding a battery/ ballast solution. Well done!
Oh it is. I put a second coat of epoxy on it and it fattened up bigtime. I am thinking of sanding it down to a more scale contour when I do a major refit. So I chatted with Tyler in PPB via email on the matter as well, and he kinda walked me through the ballasting process. I'll get the weight posted up once I do it and a full layout of what I did. my data's up for the month, so things are SLOW.
So ballast testing was a blast today. I started out at 25 pounds, and double-checked my speed down to what I am reasonably confident is 28 seconds (80% of full power). the boat was still wanting to dive a bit, so I dialed the weight down to 4X1 ounce shotgun slugs and 100 rounds of 150 grain 30 cal bullets, which got me to approximately 22.6 pounds. once I got there, I still had a bit of nose-in happening on longer duration runs (100 yards). The rounds were distributed with 50 under C turret, and another 50 behind B turret, basically bracketing the battery packs. so since the waterline was basically scale at that weight, I took the ones under B turret and placed them with the others back under C turret. fifty on the port side of the pump, and fifty on starboard, with the shotgun slugs on the port side of the pump to in order to compensate for my CO2 tank being on the starboard side of the B turret sidemount. This brought the bow up just enough to have a stable bow wave with no problems. Then I moved on to trim. turns out that the CO2 tank was still imparting a 2-3 degree list to starboard, so I removed five bullets from the starboard side and she came up even. So as it stands, I have 45X 150 gr bullets on starboard, and 50X bullets on port, along with the 4 slugs. the ballast bullets are all sitting even with the pump and drive motors. here's a photo of the final position: I spent a fair amount of time getting action shots of the bow wave, as well as maneuver characteristics. There's basically no way I could hold my own against something like @jadfer 's Baden, anything with two rudders, or even a dying seagull. But performance did improve once I got the tail end a bit heavier, and removed the weight in the bow. Dead stop turn was like one of those sad cars that tries to do a burnout, but just ends up turning at a high rate of speed. doing astern maneuver was basically a joke. lazy turns to left or right. combat speed speed turn radius was something like 20 feet. scale for about 960 yards. so ~50% over the turning radius of a standard type battleship. But that's estimation since I did my combat turns way out in the lake (fewer pond weeds, the boat launch was chock full of them). Here's the bow wave at ~28 seconds And... I stylized myself a flag for the flag vs. no flag bouts that PPB does anddd.... another bow wave shot. The wave is curling about an inch short of the deck. totally fine. Performance is about as good as she'll get. In other news, the batteries stood up to about 90 minutes at speed with a pump check every few minutes. I probably have enough juice in them to run four sorties. But at least now I know that the tell for dying battery is either the pump runs or the motors run--not both. I'd really like to see what the power draw is for my motors as well as my pump. that'd be really nice to know because then I wouldn't just be tooling around and shotgun guessing my endurance. So, end of day weight of the boat is 22.5 pounds, with all 2 pounds, 5 ounces of ballast being situated under C turret to either side of the pump.
Glad to see you out testing on the water. Right now the boat is very tall and proud, which umm isn't always desirable (and becomes frustrating in battle...if everything else works) If you are interested in improving performance, these would be the steps I would take. I also totally understand the relief after getting the boat working the first time and a related hesitation to change things, but whenever the time is right I'd recommend the following. Add more weight to lower freeboard (in still water) by about 3/4" to start Trim the boat more by the stern (stern go down), to the point that towards the aft end the waterline is at the lower stringer (ridge) Improve deck seal forward and aft (if water over deck is issue). Turns out in battle running in a straight line for 100 yards doesn't happen too much, so water over the bow isn't necessarily a bad sign. A slow boat's defense should be turning...moving to the next point Turning isn't great, not sure what prop size you ended up with. I think you were set up for issues with the alignment from the laser cut kit, prop shafts should be toed in and props should be touching in the middle for best performance (especially 2 drive prop, single rudder). Big props are good. The portion of your rudder that extends forward of the props is serving no purpose. The least intrusive fix would be to shorten the prop shafts slightly so the props are further forward. Shafts could be cut and new bushings or just a series of short brass tubes could be CA glued into the cut off end. More intrusive is shaft-ectomy, which is painful in the short term but once complete you are glad you did it (this I would delay until winter and battle season is over). I would also recommend making a new rudder, try to get full vertical coverage of props (i.e. as tall or a smidge taller than props). For the 2 shaft 1 rudder boats I have found generally rectangular shapes, about 60-70% of length aft of rudder post, 40-30% forward. There are other things that can make the rubber better as well, if interested. I have a number of pictures in my California, Seydlitz, and Agincourt builds showing my setup which I'm pretty happy with (I think about as good as it can be for that shaft/rudder combo) Anyways, good job, and mega bonus points for actually taking your boat to a pond to test out. Again, no dying batteries (never get to point where you can run one thing but not other).
Alrighty, I'll refrain from running them down that far again. Funny, you and the entire crew at PPB jumped right on the rudder and prop combo in the exact same manner. I'm thinking of doing precisely what you outlined, though I was hoping to be able to push a new bushing in, it wouldn't be the first time I did a telescoping tube setup. I'm running 1.75s right now, but if I drew them back, I'd have to switch over to 1.5, which wouldn't be a big deal since I could just throttle up to compensate. Then the 1.75s would go onto the Alaska I'm in the process of snagging for next winter. But yeah, definitely going to do something about the prop shafts this winter. I've been noticing that all of the two prop boats are toeing in. too bad I can't go back and fiddle faddle with that, but I'd rather not dissemble the whole stern. I'm seriously debating building a new rudder before the next battle with a 7/8 profile scoop-looking profile like you did on.... I think it was your Gin Palace. The PPB guys have them too, so I'll have some examples on hand. I'm in the middle of rigging the ballast right now, but I am doing so in a way that will allow me to add some more weight, so trimming her down by the stern should be pretty straightforward. I'll just toss another half pound of bullets in there between the current ballast and my solenoids. Definitely going to keep the weight in the core of the hull--the maneuverability improved significantly as soon as I pulled all of that junk out of the bow and stern. I still have to add the black strip on top of the red for the waterline, so I'm still really close to the scale waterline, maybe even a tad on the light side. Thanks, I owe a lot of my success to your help.
forgot to mention, I waterproof sealed the deck plates. tested them today. that whole time on the water, and I only got water infil when I submerged the stern well past E turret. Which reminds me, I need to stuff the gaps in that turret. After that, she's pretty ducky.
Folks that are focused on combat will try to make a combat optimized ship, choose a hull that is ideally suited for combat, and work within the 2% tolerance range. Others just want to see a static model shoot.. many subtle levels in-between but it you can boil it down that way. It's funny how many folks don't care about being 'competitive' until their ships gets quickly sunk over and over. They either quit, re-fit, or sell their old boat and build a "2%" boat, which is why I always tell folks to build for the hobby.. combat.... in the first place. Rule of thumb is re-fit in the winter so run what you got, learn, re-fit or choose a different hull in Sep/October. I am from Texas so I like the idea of you running a Texas of course so I will use Tyler's advice (years ago) to me and suggest it to you .. "keep driving the Baden, get good in it and make it popular again" (or something like that) so I tried. I felt like I did well with the Baden but never changed the rudder location / shaft setup. I DID move more rudder from the front of the rudder post to the back and saw a dramatic change in turning. PPB will tell you that the entire rudder must cover the thrust (cone?), and the part of the rudder in front of the post hung out far past the prop when I turned. The modification meant that the props were entirely covered by rudder when turning so it was redirecting more of the thrust than before. As far as trim I had the same issues with the Baden being bow heavy/bow wave and had a VERY heavy hull. I initially had concrete sealant in the ship which made it so heavy that by the time I trimmed it out... I was at max weight so yea.. no freeboard... however with no freeboard means you have no margin for holding water.. it only took a small amount of water in the hull to lower my ship 1/2 inch... then I was 'decks awash' or would sink as the step down deck would be under water. I went in and made the hull as light as possible.. spent 2 or three weekends grinding out the sealant and all water channel was the 2 part expanding foam which was covered in fiberglass. I would put down the duck decoy weights, the long strips of lead, in the water channel as needed to trim the boat initially then pour the foam, shape it then fiberglass it with silk like fiberglass cloth. The allowed me to use a much smaller amount of weight to trim the ship both bow/stern and port/starboard. In the end I found that running 2 pounds (approx. 23lbs dry and 24.5 wet) under max weight allowed approximately 7/8 of freeboard which for the Baden allowed the hull to hold much more water before sinking. Also the lighter ship was much easier to get up to speed and turn, and it was much easier to put a single large fishing weight in strategic locations than when I had the ship filled with concrete sealant. Here is a video of testing in 2011.. very heavy.. at 25.5 or right at max (forgot what it was). View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p6K2Qw7bZho I mounted the pumps side by side about 2/3 back from the bow so I was told to trim it a few degrees towards the stern so that water would naturally flow back to the pump. Some folks don't like that because its not perfectly level front to back and side to side.. no problem for me.. its a combat boat. In the end.. as it turns out.. ship selection is also based on who you battle with the most and with the Texas group.. I needed 24 seconds. When I battled @ Carl's 28 was just right but on the larger ponds.. you will be all alone .. especially if you get good with it. However the great thing about this hobby and having a 28 second ship is... .somebody almost always breaks down.. then its DINNER TIME!!! I truly hope you get that ship dialed in and make the Texas a viable ship in the hobby. J
Well that went better than my usual NYT read while drinking the morning coffee. Thanks for the tips, I never expected to have the boat be a front-line combatant right out of the gate, but I'd definitely like to get a better reaction than *LOUD STOMACH GRUMBLING* from my opponents before the end of the season. I'll heed you and Kevin and keep all of the mondo stuff til winter refit. But I should be able to knock out the forementioned stopgap measures this summer--maybe then I'd at least give PPB's trio of QEs some challenge. The concrete sealant I used wasn't as much of a hindrance for me as you, but all future builds will have the wiring running in a channel down there, so if I use it at all, it will be poured as one of the last steps. likely not using it for any fiberglass boats after what you said though. that sounds like a pain to deal with. I don't intend to have another brawler on the ways until 2020, this winter will be a heavy Texas refit, and a reactivation of an Alaska I'm in the process of buying. I'm basically running down the list of "building ships named after places I've lived", so the next one will be a Bayern. I hope to make it an utter monster using the experience gained from the Texas, and from examining ships like yours. Anywho, here's some pictures of what I am up to this morning: 55 bullets and 4 slugs on the port, and I am readying 45 bullets for starboard. following the both of your guidance, there will be 13 bullets laid between the shafts, and 5 to either side of the shafts to bring her down a tad in the stern. each bullet is 150 grains. 7,000 grains per pound. Port load is 1.45 pounds. Starboard is .96 pounds Stern load will be just under half a pound.
lol and it looks like I will be testing something else tonight when the wind dies down. it's only 3/4 wide, not 7/8, but I am building it to the specs that you all have outlined.
testing went well tonight. I managed to crank out a new rudder this afternoon and slap it on the boat. Worked incredibly well. her combat turn radius is now about 12 feet, so just a tad better than the STB specification of 600 yards. I was pretty amazed at the improvement in handling just from that. Now the weight distro was where things really improved. that weight in the stern really paid off for maneuver as the stern was about 1/4 to 1/2 inch deeper in draft. bow stayed put. she has a bit of a raked back look like you said to get, @jadfer definitely glad I sealed the deck plates: With regard to the rudder, I saw room for improvement. Since I did not add upper and lower fins, the water was "defecting". Water was spurting straight upward when the rudder was hard over and throttle was maxed. I think I could fix this well later when the props are moved back a bit and I build a new and better rudder. I'll probably throw a lower fin on this rudder and see better results, maybe even put a shortened upper fin on where the rudder will not be running into the props. Thinking of using polycarbonate since the tolerance is so tight up top between the hull and rudder. Looking at the coverage, I am only obstructing about 50% of the prop when I go hard over. something to fix with the refit, but good for now. If I tried to make the rudder longer to chase full coverage, the rudder would protrude about an inch out behind the boat. pretty sure that's not good. the turning radius isn't as great as the Baden, or any of PPB's main combatants, but it'll at least hit the lower end of the desired spectrum. For the 2018 season, I think we're operational. Handling like a drunken hamster, but good enough to put guns on target.
Figured I'd update. Worked on the forward gun all morning, the stupid magazine has just been a complete nuisance when trying to work in the hull or fiddle with the electronics, so I hand-bent it from this, To this. So now instead of diddling around in the battery bay and making loading/anything a pain in the neck, I just flip off the turret top and go to town. the gun was also much easier to coat with armor. got that knocked out. because of the current tightness of my gun mount I left the gun parts inside the barbette unarmored, but will be sticking foam into the barbette in order to act as an overall shielding. Bending the mag tube was mostly trial and error, but I managed to get it. every time I made a bend, I dropped a whole mag of BBs through to make sure it was clear. if they did not pass, I worked the bend until they did. Once everything was fitted and I was satisfied, I passed three full mags through to be sure, and slapped her in. I intend to at some point tackle the spaghetti mess of my haymaker. but it is currently not irritating me, so I will abide until the major winter refit. Still hunting for a CO2 source in town. plan on checking the welding shop once I get back from firefighting school.
You can have a bent barrel as long as it's under the turret, but yours at the deck edge will be found to not be within the rules.
yeah, already fixed the down angle inside the barbette with what I did this morning, making the bend obsolete. I'm actually in the middle of trying to find my bender to tackle that. PPB doesn't care either way, so neither do I. they just said it robs velocity and to get to it whenever. Whenever just happens to be today.
