Fast Gun vs. Big Gun

Discussion in 'General' started by Scharnhorst56, Jun 17, 2015.

  1. Beaver

    Beaver 2020 Rookie of the Year Admiral (Supporter)

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    You're always welcome. ;)
     
  2. NickMyers

    NickMyers Admin RCWC Staff

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    Yeah close but not quite.

    Important tidbits: You can only have half unit cannons on class 1 or 2 ships. Anything larger if you want to use that half unit offensively you create a 1.5 unit cannon with 75rounds instead of the 50 that a 1 unit gets. You also can't split whole units in class 3 and up.

    A half unit pump is also a 3/32 outlet, and can only be installed if it is the only pump in the ship.

    So a 4.5 unit ship could mount 2 1 unit cannons, 1 1.5unit canon, and a 1 unit pump. Or you could mount 4 1 unit cannons and a 0.5 unit pump. Or 2 1 unit pumps and 1 1 unit cannon and a 1.5 unit cannon. Or 3 pumps and a 1.5 unit cannon.

    For most ships, that half unit basically means "you get an extra 25 bbs for one cannon" because for most folk a half unit pump on a class 4 and up isn't desirable.
     
  3. deryk haole

    deryk haole Member

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    WWCC, a big gun club was kicked out of San Jose as an illegal activity, not because of a lack of water. Big gun is dead. No one is making guns because there is no demand. They are expensive to produce and require constant maintenance.
    Putting together a fast gun ship or 1/72 scale PMWC ship is much cheaper, readily available and requires less maintenance. If you like the 1/144 scale format, stay with fast gun. A larger, much easier scale is 1/72 PMWC or Queens Own style of warship combat.
     
  4. NickMyers

    NickMyers Admin RCWC Staff

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    I'm a bit unsure as to the relevance of the legality of warship combat in San Jose to this thread.

    It seems to me that BigGun is not dead, in CA or TX, and definitely not in Australia. Certainly the gun situation is a problem, but the reason no one mass produces them for sale is because they're an expensive, time consuming item to make. The rare times I have seen guns go up for sale they've been snatched up quickly. For BigGun to thrive they will need to fix the gun supply problem, but otherwise they basically face the same issues as the rest of us.
     
  5. buttsakauf

    buttsakauf Admiral (Supporter)

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    That is a massively ignorant thing to say. Big Gun is alive and well both in the United States and Australia. I am personally close to people in the WWCC and the NTXBG and they would heartily disagree with your statement. In addition there are those who still have their Big Gun ships and would happily join back into Big Gun battling if the opportunity presented itself. Some dormant SCBG guys come to mind. Which, as a side note, "they" are breathing life back into that club.
     
  6. jadfer

    jadfer Well-Known Member

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    So if I buy a used Big Gun ship with no guns.. how soon can I battle?

    Also.. you shouldn't count folks that are 'dormant' as part of the club, unless they are paying dues.
     
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  7. SteveT44

    SteveT44 Well-Known Member

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    Any hobby endeavor who's primary elements are not commercially available or relatively easy to fabricate is doomed to an obscure niche status (learned that with paintball tanks :bang:). The ultra scale requirements of big-gun (different calibers, rotates, elevates, etc.) places big-gun at that same rarefied level as Steamers building their exact scale replicas of 19th century triple expansion engines IMO.
     
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2015
  8. irnuke

    irnuke -->> C T D <<--

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    For that matter, any reference to what's going on over on the Left Coast is irrelevant anyway for a guy in Va who's just starting. I'd suggest that Lefties not hijack a thread from a new east coast member who's just trying to learn what's up.
     
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  9. deryk haole

    deryk haole Member

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    Show me a big gun club that has grown in the last five years? SCBG lost the majority of their membership when John White quit. On top of that in an attempt to control SCBG, an unnamed person meddled in their affairs and lost the pond for them. Poof...there're gone. Western warship lost a majority of their membership because of political assassinations....meaning play my way or we'll get rid of you! Add the fact that western warship attempted to politically hijack the pond here in San Jose.....and LOST. A well known administrator of western said to me," if we loose the pond, we loose the club". The pond is gone....poof western is gone. If you are interested in facts, I have many more. It was recently stated, "no one is making guns for big gun style of combat". That to my knowledge is very close to bedrock factual. I'm surprised of whom made that statement....but it's true. I started in big gun with western way back. The handwriting was already on the wall back then. That is when I and other western members when to half gunning. It was in that mode western continued to grow...albeit slowly. Then someone had the bright idea to return to full guns.....fools! Here is why I say that. To be competitive one needed a battleship. The guns were very expensive. Only a few could really afford them. Then those members not being able to afford a battleship were constantly sunk and they quickly lost interest. There go a few more members........then there is the political side of why at least this big gun is dead. The administration alienated the membership.......poof they are now gone. I have the names, I have the facts. Sure there are a handful still trying to survive and as far as California is concerned, if they are that healthy, why is someone having to breathe life back into them??? So it is big gun in California of which I speak. I do not have personal information of other states but you can hardly argue the warship combat community is not a dying breed for many reasons. Staring you in the face is this website. It appears they have greatly reduced their general and contributing members. Every club has suffered losses.........modeling is a dying ability........they want it now! WW ll era persons are dying and interest in the war is shrinking. The economy has greatly effected a family's spare cash. I try to stay off this site because of the b.s. being passed as factual and unwarranted attempts to sensor contradicting opinions.......If we don't like you.......poof, you're gone too. Well. maybe poof, I'm gone too. We'll see.
     
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  10. deryk haole

    deryk haole Member

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    My remark was not intended to hijack the thread......really, you couldn't find another word? My posting was in response to a comment directed to me. In fact I support fast gun as you should have read earlier. Fast gun is a more supportable venue than big gun. Get over it......what are you twelve or something?
     
  11. NickMyers

    NickMyers Admin RCWC Staff

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    I can split these last few posts off into a new thread if the vitality of Big-Gun is something that folk are interested in discussing further.
     
  12. Gary Powell

    Gary Powell Well-Known Member

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    I think it might be good to know "honestly" what the health of all the various groups is. Not to take away, but to find ways to help support each other. R/C warship combat is a very unique hobby and when we land a new member, it's important we keep them; regardless of which format they settle on. However, to encourage someone to join a group that has already, or is on the verge of folding should be known. All some forum members have been trying to say is when someone is misleading us by blowing smoke, we would just like to hear the truth for once.

    You create a thread on club and battling format health and I will be the first to post what the "honest" status of Queen's Own and PMWC is. I would also challenge the other groups to do the same and if our responses are not truthful, allow us to call them on it as long as it done in a positive manner.
     
  13. buttsakauf

    buttsakauf Admiral (Supporter)

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    Does growing equal alive and well? No. If the members of a club enjoy themselves, it doesn't matter how many guns are available or the number of members. My comment was pointing out that the people in the club determine if it meets their expectations or not. I was just relaying the feelings of those that I have communicated with recently.
     
  14. buttsakauf

    buttsakauf Admiral (Supporter)

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    As soon as you take the initiative to make some cannons from the available reference material. I had a one-off cannon made by a machine shop straight from some modified jc white plans a long time ago for $100 plus some hardware. Maybe $200 total. Not that hard to make happen. I was 18 at the time too.
     
  15. irnuke

    irnuke -->> C T D <<--

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    ...and bringing the thread back around to original topic: A bb cannon from BattlerConnection is $31.50 (50rnd straight mag)
     
  16. buttsakauf

    buttsakauf Admiral (Supporter)

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    True. However for a "competitive setup" solenoids, larger plumbing, and a high flow regulator add to the cost in comparison to a big gun setup. It is still cheaper. But it narrows the gap. Take a North Carolina for instance. $31.5 + $28.5 solenoid= ~$60. Then x5 and you are in the neighborhood of $300. It is cheaper no doubt. But both decrease in cost exponentially depending on how much you are willing to fabricate.
     
  17. irnuke

    irnuke -->> C T D <<--

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    Not quite following... your $200 big gun cannon is a full rig (regulator, plumbing, etc.)? I thought we were just comparing one gun to one gun.
     
  18. NickMyers

    NickMyers Admin RCWC Staff

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    high flow regulator? Does someone have a new secret weapon to sink us all again? (Doesn't BG use the same regs we do?)
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2015
  19. buttsakauf

    buttsakauf Admiral (Supporter)

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    Many regulators cannot keep up/drop off if pushed on Stalnaker/Mangus style gun. Particularly if it is a twin mount. Most fast gunners I have met with fast and/or hard hitting guns use a bit more air than the standard guns do. Whether it is an additional air line on the back of the elbow, s/m, etc... I know I can burn through 2.5-3oz of co2 easy with just my two guns (125rds total) on Radetzky. I use .180 inside diameter nylon air lines on Radetzky because it was initially "choking" on 1/16" ID lines. To support all of that though my initial regulator did not have the flow required. I had to step it up too. A sustained burst would drop off after 8-10shots. I am not Mangus fast (11 rds/sec) ROF wise , I am still faster than most and was able to starve the guns. There is a reason there has been double regulator setups and the like.
    And yes often times big gunners use the same regs. Others have told me because that is what available from vendors not because it is the most cost effective option.
     
  20. buttsakauf

    buttsakauf Admiral (Supporter)

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    It was one to one, a fast gun cannon needs a good solenoid. In the cost comparison I made the mistake of assuming everyone knew you would need 3 big gun cannons for a North Carolina. That was presumptuous on my part because we have many that aren't familiar with the common Big Gun rule sets. Therefore guns for Big Gun = $600 and fast gun = $300. I left of support pieces for the cost comparison (regulators, hoses, and the like). There are variables in those costs though. All based on personal preference of course.