Per our discussion this weekend: All guns are permitted to have 75 round magazines. Reasoning: These are large boats, with large amounts of reserve buoyancy. With a max of 4 guns per BB (fewer for smaller ships), more firepower will be required to generate sinks (and ensure maximum mayhem). Increasing the number of guns would quickly increase both the cost and complexity of the boats - negating one of the primary objectives of this club. Raising the magazine capacity, OTOH, minimally increases cost and has no material effect on complexity.
We talked about this at the build session and after much back and forth (at least 5 or 10 minutes worth), we felt that this would be a good change to propose.
Greetings: In terms of firepower, we built armoured cruisers which were set at 3 guns. I guess you could fit 75 mags in the hull. I am inclined to use 50 only because my Co2 bottle is small sized. The nice thing about these hulls is that they are quite spacious. It is perfect for a newbie. I finished trimming off the excess wood at the bottom stern and sanded the sides. Now I can use spar varnish after some more hand sanding. In looking at superstructures, I would like to stay short otherwise the wind will blow the vessel around. Manuel Mejia,Jr.
I do remember...but looking at that (now 1/4") stringer right at the waterline, I don't anticipate ramming being very damaging. A "below waterline" spike mounted to the bow ala CSS Virginia / Merrimack could poke a hole between two ribs, but odds are that (just like the Virginia) the ram will get stuck in the hole. I dunno which Captain would be more unhappy, the one settling slowly as a result of the hole in his side, or the one who's bow is being slowly dragged under....
I saw a guy's marker float get blown off and tangled in another guys props. The second battler proceeded to shoot at the first boat until he realized their fates were tied together. When the first boat sank, it dragged the second down with great cheers from shore.
I don't see 1/32" balsa holding onto a ram spike all that well. I think rams will be a very cool aspect of the format. With a ramming captain having to go motionless for a bit after a ram will add some interesting strategy. I foresee a ramming free for all the last 60 seconds of a sortie.
I am not hip on the idea of Ramming. I would prefer to see more guns if damage is the goal... I just think the ramming can too easily get out of control... how fast are you allowed to go when ramming? Can you back up go forward, back up , go forward for multiple rams...? Can more than one ship ram at the same time? this just leads to a completely new aspect of the hobby, heck, why even have guns? I think we need to keep the ramming out of it.. my two cents! If we want more damage and lots of sinks... I would entertain the idea of more guns... Maybe go PC- 3, AC- 4 , and BB- 6; and removing the sidemount limitations... or, even to the extreme, if you can have the room, you can have the gun as long as it is in a turret and no more than two guns in a turret...
I think we could experiment with it. My thoughts are that a ramming captain has to go immobile for two minutes after a ram and cannot shoot during this period. Four or more participants in a sortie are required to allow ramming. The tactical aspects are obvious. Nobody would intentionally ram unless they were being covered by someone they trust. A rammed ship, if it stays afloat long enough can get easy shots or ram on the rammer. We could limit one ram per ship per sortie.
I dont know Steve, I have seen both sides of this... when a ship hits another at 26 sec speed, there can be no damage, and there can be structural damage... If all the ships ran at like 30 sec speed, then maybe... but I don't think some of these rookie boats could withstand a 24 or 26 sec cruiser slamming into their side.... too much force for me to like. My 7 ply wood can take that impact, not to mention my supper will be strong as well, but look at from a rookie builder.. the supper will most likely fall apart upon impact.. not to mention every joint in the boat may be jarred loose.. that cheap 2 ply particle core plywood from home depot or lowes will BREAK! it most likely will be a sink no mater what is broke loose and shifted,,,, LOL, I can see it now... "When the battle starts, within the first minute a ship takes a full ram from a AC at 26 sec speed... she breaks 2 ribs, cracks the stringer, knocks off half of the super, the CO2 bottle shifts over and the battery as well, and sinks in 10 seconds..." I have no issue looking into it, and I will try to keep a open mind, but at the moment, my vote is no rams.. just too many additional rules needed to be added to control.
No way, man. It's not 7-ply, but it'll take a hit at 24 seconds, easily. The ribs are 7/8" thick and heavily reinforced. I volunteer to have my ship rammed broadside by a ship built from 7-ply for testing
I would have to concur with McSpuds. It is my ship, the newbie guy, that will be taking the first ram and I do not see the mechanicals holding up well after being bumped. The rib and frame would hold up but everything else may not hold. I am especially curious how the Co2 hoses for the cannons would survive the shaking. Speaking of cannons, Tug's colleague in the hobby makes cannons. I would love to get one more for the AC. Are there any spares around that I could procure ? Can anyone give me advice on setting up a set of cannons ? I am a better wiring person than a pnumatics man. Manuel Mejia, Jr.
Manuel,your closest source is Battlers Connection in Sanford. www.battlersconnection.com Believe me, you don't want "hand-me-down" cannons.
Rick @ Battlersconnection.com is close by you in Florida. His guns are very good and you will be hard pressed to build guns in that quality as cheap as they sell them. My recommendation is get a few from him.
Based on my short experience in the hobby and in boatbuilding, it is my belief that one could mount one of the cheap ply hulls on a 2" dowel, and lay waste to the Philistines like unto Sampson with the jawbone of an @$$. They are really strong. For goodness sake, they've got twice the ribs of my I-boat and the ribs are almost an inch thick. If we don't want ramming, I'm cool with that, but don't argue against it saying that the hulls are too weak. Sampson von Tugboat
That is a very good point. The cannon I have from them is quite nice. I just have to keep the cats from using them as play toys. Manuel Mejia, Jr.
If you can show me how the rules can be adjusted to allow this to be done in a good way, I may be in for it. How will we treat accidental rams? Do we put any ship that touches another ship on a two minute stand still? How do we separate a intentional ram from a unintentional ram? Whats the difference from a unintentional ram and one that is intentional, if they both do damage to the skin.. ? Who sits still for two minutes and who does not? What prevents a Captain that builds a PC from just using no guns and only ramming? Isn't the core of the hobby to shoot each other and not chase each other down with rams? I just dont want to see it turn into a "Demolition Derby". The main idea of this hobby is to shoot and sink ships with BB's. If you want to add MAYHEM, just increase the amount of guns... Last NATS, the campaign was horrible because we used the rule that if you touch a convoy ship you had to return to the shore and wait 30 seconds. This turned the campaign into a cat and mouse chase and not a fight.
Hmm...how about this: Deliberate ramming attacks must be announced ("Ramming SPEED!"). Each ship is allowed to make one deliberate ramming attack per sortie. Successful ramming ship is permitted to back away from victim to point of separation, but must then remain stationary for 60 seconds. During this time he is permitted to fire guns. Accidental rams: Victim of collision has option of declaring a collision to be a ram. If the victim does so, above rules apply. If not called, no penalty is enforced.
Just a quick reminder to everyone: 1) each ship has a solid, structural stringer at the waterline 2) each ship is required to follow the standard hull shape below that waterline. That rules out any Virginia-style underwater ram bows, and ensures that any contact between hulls will be between solid structures. I would not expect much, if any, flooding caused by collisions between ships, either deliberate or accidental. With that in mind, I suggest something closer to the Western approach to ramming. Incidental contact is allowed, so long as it does not cause an uncorrectable list or outright sink, or obstructs an obviously sinking ship from reaching shallow water.
