We hijacked this thread: http://www.rcnavalcombat.com/Forum/...fault.aspx and probably should continue it here. There seem to be many RC Switches in use right now and perhaps a 'round-up' might be good. I would need some help from those folks that have used different types out there. I would like to see a chart that would list the basic stats so that we can evaluate them properly. For making sense of the types I would specify that a firing position is based on a turret/gun that fires independently of another and therefore would use a different stick movement in order to fire. Please reply with info on switches you have used and either the stats below or a link to where they can be found. An important note is that if you want to run 2 firing positions from one channel you will need a y-splitter and a way to have each board trigger at different stick positions (up or down). The cost of the y-splitter is not included in this evaluation but should be considered when making a decision based on cost. I will edit this first post as I verify and get more information. ** Firing positions per channel - if the board has no adjustment for the trigger point then it seems you wouldn't be able to put two of these switches on a channel and trigger one for up and the other for down. This means that you can only have one firing board on a channel which is fine for ships with an odd number of firing positions but for 3 or more firing positions it would be incompatible. Boards like the Team Delta have dip switches so you can set the trigger point for 33 or 66 %. The firmtronics / Battlerabbit boards have two switches built into one board so no adjustment is needed. Brand Weight Firing Positions / Switch Loads Operation External Battery Capable? Input Volts from RCV Continous Amps Dim inches Cost Firing Board Comparison Firmtronics Stock 4g 1 or 2 Same board Custom Yes 2.7 to 6.0 2.5 / 5amps @16V max ? $14-$22 Firmtronics - BC Battlerabbit - Double-shot 4g 1 or 2 Same board Momentary Yes 2.7 to 6.0 6 amps per switch @16V Max ? $20-$22 Pololu 1210 .5g 1** Momentary Yes 2.0 to 5.5 3 amps cont? 0.4x0.6 $7.95 Pololu 1211 1.2G 1** Momentary Yes 2.0 to 5.5 15 amps Max 0.6x0.8 $9.95 NERS V2 3.27G 1** Momentary Yes 2.0 to 10 4 amps 0.3x1.0 $11.95 Team Delta RCE200 r8 L ? 1 / 2 with y harness and second board Momentary Yes 3.8 to 5.5 5 amps 0.6x1.6 $24 Dimension Eng Pico Switch 7.6G 1** Momentary Yes 3.5 to 5.5 1 amp @ 24vdc 0.62 x 0.75 $19.99 Dimension Eng Battleswitch 21G 1** Momentary Yes 3.5 to 5.5 10 amps @ 28vdc 1.25 x 1.25 $24.99 Turnigy Switch LUM-ONF 7G 1** Latching Yes ? 10 amps @30V ? $6.63 ARCS2 ? 2 ? on/off?? Yes 10 amps 32mmx25mmx11mm $20 est Hansen Hobbies 14.8G 1/2 with Y harness and second board Momentary? Yes? 4.5V - 10V 5A @ 55V ? $12.45 3 for $30 EMS E-Switch ? 2 Momentary OR Latching Yes ? 5A @ 30V 1.5x1.5x.75 $40
There is also the Turnigy switch from Hobby King. www.rcnavalcombat.com/Forum/tabid/5...fault.aspx Note this one cannot be used with a Y-harness since the on/off is not reversable.
The Pololus are momentary. You may want to add a column on your chart if a device supports the reversible on/off feature like the Delta switch does. You can also add the Anvilus Mini RC controller http://www.anvilus.com. This board can control up to four functions but cannot drive a solenoid directly as it can only sink 150ma. You would need an intermediate relay or transistor like a TIP Darlington. Steve
Thanks Mike and Steve. I think for the purposes of this list we should limit it to boards that don't require any other components to fire a solenoid. As its output is only 150ma and cant fire a solenoid, my opinion is that it doesn't qualify as a firing board, per se. It wont even power any of the relays I have either as they are all .5 to 1 amp trigger. For simplicity I would like to keep it limited to boards that can trigger at least a solenoid on its own. (Kips need 7 watts and seem to be the power hogs in this hobby. Please correct me if I am wrong). The anvilus is good to know about though for possible future projects that use smaller relays. Thanks for providing the info. While on the subjet the Dimension Engineering DELITE controller will also function as a firing board but as the software repeats the programmed action over and over while the button is pressed, was impractical and so I left it off. Why bother when there are so many other boards that will do the job more efficiently and save money. I added a double ** for the boards that do not support what I call an adjustable trigger point. Is there a correct term for this? J
You are most likely correct in limiting the list to single board solutions, better to keep it simple.
Just saw this. Guy in the UK making a two way RC switch for $22.50US delivered. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2-WAY-Rad...336da866e6 Order the non-latching version and replace two of the Delta boards at one third the cost.
We already have that in a smaller package from BC for the same price. The BC boards are the ones Johnny Adams found.
Is the Firmtronics BC switch configured to switch one or two loads? Since in the chart its listed at 6A it sounds like one load (using both of the Firmtronics switches as one). The Firmtronics can only switch 6v max. The eBay switch can handle two loads of up to 24v and 10A each. Big difference. If the BC switch is the same as the stock except for the firmware, it should be listed at 2.5A per switch in the chart. The chart should be adjusted to show switched number of loads and voltage/current parameters. For example, the Pololu 1211 can switch a single load of 60V/15A and the Firmtronics can switch two loads at 6V/2.5A or one load at 6V/5A.
It does one channel (FWD/Rev, P/S Cannon, etc). The 10A rating for the other is useless, overkill for Gun Boards or a Relay Fwd/Rev and not enough for Drive Motors and pump usage.
Your confusing loads with channels. In regards to the current discussion, these switches using one R/C channel will switch one or two loads. Obviously it is desirable for a switch to handle two loads for economy sake. As to the comment of a 10A capacity being useless? If between two devices of the same cost and relative size, I'd take the higher rated amperage capacity every time. Also, automotive 30A and 60A power relays can be switched all day at 250MA, so any of the listed boards is more than sufficient.
The Firmtronics BC version will switch two loads. The mosfets are 4amp continuous (found out today) and 6 amp for 1or 2 seconds which is just fine for triple kip solenoids. I am not sure what the limit is on the switched voltage. The 6.0v limit is for input / powering the board. However if you use pin 2 and 3 (+ and SW) then the board will output the input voltage to the load (pulling the load through the reciever - not recommended). The BC switch is NOT the same as the stock board. The firmware was changed AND the mosfets were upgraded .. for about the same price. On the list I had hoped to simplify the description of switched loads as firing positions. You will see that the firmtronics boards are listed as 2, the team delta as 1, and others as 1** which means that only 1 board can be used per channel therefore only 1 firing position per channel. If I am unable to track down info I will leave it as a '?' so that we know to look for it or that it is unknown. The ebay switch can be ordered as non-latching and I see no reason it wouldnt work in this hobby but it is larger than the firmtronics and for firing solenoids I see no benefit to its size or by ordering it from over-seas. However if you need a dual 10 amp switch then it would be ideal.
I'm not confusing anything, you are missing the point. I build Radio boxes in my sleep an I'd say a good 10-15 people use my boxes in their ships. I used to use the TD Boards and simplified that solution to where the only board needed was the RCE200's (no need for 210's or 220's) which keeps the spare part factor down. Now, I'm building boxes with the Firmtronics boards and working to come up with a "micro" box with everything in it. The problem with your 10A analogy is that the 10A board is not the same size. The takes up a larger footprint. The BC Firmtronics 6V/6A is more than adequate to do the job.
Not all 10 amp boards are large size. The Turnigy switch is smaller than a Delta board, weighs 7 grams, and handles 10 amps @ 30 volts.
FYI The whole reason I ended up getting involved with Firmtronics was size. I was unable to find a small switch that A) was very small and could fit into almost radio box, B) would fire/switch two loads/solenoids independently (up/down on 1 channel), and C) was reasonably affordable. I didn't want to become a maker but I had to because at the time I did all my research there were a few but most wanted me to order hundreds of units to change the firmware. My initial lot of Firmtronics were the 2.5amp version but with the updated firmware. I still use them in the Baden today. I have passed a few of them out to test and to help someone out at a battle with a bad TD board. As far as I know they are all still working. We ordered a bunch of the 6amp version for BC (the only version they ever had) and I have yet to use my allotment of 6amp switches as I was waiting for the others to 'wear out'. I have a pico switch and used it for a while but it is in the toolbox now as for pumps I use the firmtronics as they are flatter than the pico switch, can use the 3x2 plugs I like, and I dont have a spare pico. I may end up using it to trigger a relay in a cruiser in the future but as it is a mechanical relay I didnt like the 'action' when triggering a solenoid.. I didn't like the delay. I wanted solid state for that (or whatever you call micro-controlled firing boards). Now that I have the smaller board I sold off all my TD boards but I had no problem with them at all. I suppose its nice that you can buy the opto-coupler and replace it on the board.. the Firmtronics uses surface mount components.. if you smoke it.. its time for the ashtray. So I try to use it for what it was tested for.. firing solenoids (kips/clippard 6v) and triggering relays.
J, I'm not disparaging the Firmtronics board. As you state, a single board solution to fire two solenoids from a single RC channel is very limited. As the Ebay board can do this, that's why I brought it to the lists attention. The Firmtronics switch looks to be a very good compact solution but as its max advertised switching voltage is 6v, it is not an option I can consider as my models are 12v or higher. I've always been taken aback by the exorbitant prices that some of these vendors charge for these boards (TD in particular). So much so that I built my own custom solution for my VU last year. The pictured board can fire eight solenoids, includes a BEC and uses $20 in parts.
I got an answer to some questions on the firmtronics board and was able to confirm that the max voltage that can be switched is 16V when using an external battery. This is more than enough for the 12V products. Also it can support different voltages on each switch so you can mix and match up to 16V. I have updated the list to reflect it. The input voltage is 6.0v and if you use the board to drive the solenoid then you will get whatever voltage is being input into the board. While the board will support this I dont think its a good idea for our hobby unless you are driving loads in the 250mah range or less. I wouldnt want to push alot of current through my receiver. Steve that is a very cool switch, as far as I can tell it does one channel so you can fire 2, 4, or 8 per stick movement? That must be for big gun and I am sure it works well. The firmtronics was never sourced to be a replacement for an 8 solenoid board, its job is to allow 2 switches per channel built into one boardin a compact size. It will handle up to three solenoids per switch (kips, small clippards tested), and it does the job inexpensivly and it does the job well. I also like the pololu and may try one when I just need a single board per channel (like a pump) and can save money using it to drive a relay or led lights. J
May want to add to the Turnigy line that the switch is normally a latch type, i.e. it will stay on or off when switched. It is possible to work around that feature by using trim adjustments to return the switch back to the off state (or on if one wants it that way). Additionally, it has a fail-safe feature that allows the user to set the switch to a specific state when the reciever signal is lost, i.e. off, on, last state, or alternating on/off. Also may want to add 10A @ 30V to the continous amps column. A downside to the Turnigy is that the switched side requires a common ground with the receiver power. Doesn't have to be the same voltage, just the same ground.
That's good news on the Firmtronics. With its feature set and price point it should totally supplant the TD boards in a few years. My custom switch uses four channels off the Rx. The large connector on the top taps the signal lines on the receiver. The red and black connector powers the Rx. The offboard drivers (TIP120's) connect to the bottom header on the board. Those are two pics on the board. The one with the red dot has a firing delay to limit double feeds in the guns. This could be adjusted to match format firing restrictions (or a full auto feature ;-). The board was never meant to fire 8 guns. In the VU, it's setup to drive fwd/rev relay and a pump relay, which leaves six drivers for guns (only three used in the VU). FYI: One datum on the Pololu's is that they include the flyback diode on the board. Steve
