I thought about the 16 gram and 90 gram cartridges. However, I'm worried about: They don't have an anti-siphon tube (right?); so will they still work on their side? Or will they just dispense liquid CO2 into my gas lines? Where do I get a regulator for 12g the cartridges? (The 90 gram has a paintball adaptor, so I can fit the BC regulators.) Can anyone help me with #1? I'm not really even considering either cartridge as a result.
#1 Never been an issue for me when using the 12g cartridges in a destroyer. I get about 53 shots from my setup using an old swampworks (williams) regulator. #2 There are/were (I've not looked in a while as mine dates from 2003 and still works fine) adapters for 12g as well. - something like View: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07YXQL43F?tag=relibrar-20&linkCode=osi&th=1&psc=1
That is REALLY helpful. I've been going down the path of "how many BBs per ounce CO2" for a day now. I took a number of different ships/sources vs their fast gun cannons. The numbers seem to be sitting around around 60 BBs per ounce of CO2 minimum, and you seem to be around 80 (12g = 0.6 oz). So, if I can get 50 shots out of a 12g cartridge and Big Gun 3/16" bearings can fire every 4 seconds; then I can shoot my dual cannons for nearly 2 minutes before reloading. In a big gun battle, I'm assuming a sub won't be shooting every 4 seconds like clock work. So, I am going to assume 4 minutes of runtime if I use a 12 gram. The other aspect is how much ammo will I have? Excess CO2 and nothing to shoot with is pretty useless... @Iunnrais- Could you post a photo of your destroyer setup, specifically around the cartridge? I just want to get the perspective before I go down that path.
I use a very similar setup to Beaver in my Vac-U-Gearing. The only difference is I have use threaded 16g cartridges. I get about 60 shots or so before it's out. The actual installation is mostly on its side, with a slight upward slope. I have not had any issues with liquid CO2 getting into the lines. A few things you may want to discuss with the other guys in the NTXBG. Is the difference between 3/16" and .177" really worth it? I could understand if it was 7/32" because that is significantly larger, but in my experience there is very little difference between the two smaller calibers. That said, I have only seen a couple ships with 3/16" cannons and they saw little action. Also, what would they think of having a single cannon that "double-taps" every four seconds in place of a twin? A single cannon is much simpler than a twin, and double-tapping would be an interesting way to get the damage potential of a twin turret from a single active cannon. Not the sort of thing I'd do in a bigger ship, but a small vessel like a destroyer or submarine needs all the help it can get. I also just found out about the British M-class submarine, a "giant" WWI sub armed with a single 12" deck gun. Very interesting...
@Kotori87 - I agree with your thoughts… i think I’ll actually just grab a pair of fast gun cannons for day 1 launch. They’ll be reliable and gas efficient, plus I won’t have to think too hard. Good find with the M-Series! It’s even thinner than the Surcouf, though….
Alright, so today I settled on the 12G co2 adaptor from JR/RAP4. It seems to have the best reviews online and seems to be trusted amount the Paintball community to not explode in their face. https://a.co/d/j8sgsid Also, after sleeping on it, I am going to go with a pair of Fast Gun BB cannon for day 1. I’m thinking Battlers Connection. The thing that’s holding me back from pulling the trigger is I’m not sure what size. The 50 BB cannons make the most sense, as they are twice the CO2 we expect I’ll have. However, I can’t help but get greedy and want dual 75s for $1 more. This is why I stopped going to fast food restaurants. Writing it out, I should just order the 50s and keep it simple. IF this all works, and I do want to upgrade, I’ll be 3D printing something anyway. ———- OK! So with that decision out of the way.. what are you guys using for solenoids these day? PLEASE tell me you aren’t still using popits/servos!!??
Before you start buying cannons that weigh a ton make sure and do a full weight roll up for everything that's going in there and make sure it's going to fit. The weight difference alone between a pair of typical fast gun cannons and a quad pack of 3D printed cannons was significant with the 3D printed ones coming in something like half to 2/3 the weight of the of the two they replaced
How heavy are they!? I never perceived they were all that heavy? I can’t weight one unless I own it! Can you weigh one for me?
Just weighed two different cannons right now. Copper one unit Cannon 145 g. 3D printed one unit Canon about 75g
There can be pretty high variation depending on 3D printed Canon design and what you compact in there because a single unit Cannon doesn't weigh all that much different from twin half units
So after I modeled the properly sized CO2 tank into the ship, I realized I needed to shell out the ship to make it empty for the internal parts. I tried to use the Shell function on Fusion 360, but it kept giving me errors. I have to say the biggest struggle with F360 is the meaningless errors. When an error pops up, I have no idea what it means or how to resolve it. I've taken to simply backing out my change, and trying something else. In this case, I had to back out quite a lot. I took it back the whole way to the Loft command, this time using surface loft rather than solid loft. The result does work out the way I wanted, but now I'll have to re-model the superstructure.
Wow, that thing is big. Have you added extra depth yet? If you haven't yet, now is probably the time before you start mounting things. These bitty boats need all the help they can get. And yeah, Fusion360's errors are extremely frustrating. The error messages rarely tell you what's actually wrong. For hollowing out hulls, I used two solid lofts. One to form the solid hull, and the second to cut out the inside. By changing the profile of the inside loft, I could easily add water channeling and other useful features. I'm also confused by your math. If a 16-gram cartridge is enough for about 60 rounds on a good day, how do you plan to squeeze 100 rounds (two 1-unit cannons) from a 12-gram cartridge?
What does this mean extra depth? Where do I get that from? I don’t plan to be able to use all 100 rounds any more than other boats plan to use all their co2. Admittedly, I’d prefer a larger tank. I’ll try a 90gr as well.
I believe @Kotori87 is referring to the 3/8" additional depth allowed for ships under 15,000 tons by 7B in the in the NTXBG Rules of Construction. Maybe you don't need it? It'd be a bummer to have to redo the sections and the lofting : (
Finally, I am back to where I started. Hull is completely shelled out AND taller! I added the 3D printed blast shields, we'll come to know if they get in the way of my internal parts.
I took a guess at just under 1/8”. I’ll get it in the water and see if the bearings penetrate & adjust as needed.
It's looking cool I will say that I have not really found that 3D printed blast shields are worth anything unless they're so thick and heavy that it's not something that really should be 3D printed. I highly recommend you take the model you have make a solid variant of it up to the floating water line as in everything that is submerged when it's sitting at the floating water line. find the volume of it, multiply by the density of water and that is the total weight budget you have for your boat. Then take the models you've got Make some estimates of what the average density is going to be or just slice them to find out and make sure you're not too heavy, I ship this size is really easy to go overweight on
