Gearing, Gearing, Capitani

Discussion in 'Warship Builds' started by Nate G, Mar 24, 2019.

  1. Nate G

    Nate G Well-Known Member

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    I have always been fascinated by the small ships. While I have started several projects over the years, none have been completed to the point that I was confident to battle them. Recent technology such as lighter servos, the new light regulators, 3D printing and new use of vac forming with thick styrene combine to make these ships worth looking at again.
    The first ship is Phil Pace's Vac - u - Gearing. Several members have built these nice kits and John Jones , who has built a number of these for himself and to get others started off - kudos to you John - brought one to Nats 2018 and ran quite successfully.
    I would like to compare the builds of a stock Vac-u-Gearing, the rebuild of an older Fiberglass hull (possible a Swampy hull from the '80's ), and a slightly larger Class 1, The Capitani hull from BC.
    Note - description updated based on additional measurements and info:
    The really small ships still have a hard time with stability and topside weight. Rules allow adding depth and consequently displacement so that more hull in the water keeps them from turning turtle. Accordingly, when the original VacU-Gearing and Fletcher had issues, 5/16 inch of depth were added to Gearing. the F/G hull (likely Canadian) has 9/16" added.
    Now that my Mac seems to recognize photos and I have put some of the pix in this site's media, here goes.
     
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2019
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  2. Nate G

    Nate G Well-Known Member

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    First up, some stock shots of the Gearing build:
    Phil's kit is a scale model fitted with combat gear. as such , there is no added depth for weight. With that limitation, He has created a model that works.
    The main issue with the smallest class is topside weight. Phil handles this with vacuforming to get all the required detail with almost no weight. This part of the kit is very easy to put together. As a side note, I have been working with our local high school on a STEM project with Warship Combat. We are using this kit. I had zero question from the class on the deck build. They were first time builders. They did great and had no problem following the website instructions and get it done.
    To me, one of the hardest parts to a build is setting up the drive and rudder systems accurately and with strength. The kit uses preformed journals for the stuffing tubes and drilled rivets that fit into formed pockets in the hull. This makes it very easy to get it right.
    The props line up well. Something I have not seem/done is the long portion of shaft that is unsupported. I would not do this in a larger ship but suspect it will hold up well in a light ship such as this using 1/8 inch shafts.
    Final view of the prototype.
     
  3. bsgkid117

    bsgkid117 Vendor

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    Very cool. These vac-u-destroyers seem to be making it even easier to build 1 unit boats than ever before. And you can't complain about the cost either. Might have to snag one myself one of these days.
     
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  4. Nate G

    Nate G Well-Known Member

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    So, what did I do differently?
    First, the nice wide subdeck combined with the rudder location make it a challenge to get fingers and tools on the rudder to adjust, remove, etc. It works but moving the rudders and shortening the prop shafts to shift the props forward makes maintenance much easier. That said, recutting holes away from the kit's preset locations was a bit of work. the rudder shaft tubes are supported by small blocks of spruce and shaped to the hull. affixed with filled US Composites epoxy.
    Rudders and props lined up well.

    positioning and holding down the battery and expansion tank are handled by light wood braces epoxied into the bilge.
    Battery in place. The expansion tank is attached to the Vac-u-boat poppet/servo mechanism and held in place with velcro.
    CO2 uses 12-16 gram cartridges and the beverage regulator suggested in the kit.
    One of the first items of business was the boat stand for a stable place to work on the hull. I mounted the styrene stand on a scrap of pine a few inches longer than the hull to provide a solid base and give some protection in transport. screw eyes, cup hooks and rubber bands hold it in place. I used polyurethane gorilla glue and small screws to hold the parts together.
    Trimmed properly, the electronics platform will catch on the subdeck and hold the gear out of the bilge water.
    The resulting gemmisch of wiring. I now, it needs some tidying up.
    Overall view sans cannon mounting.
     
  5. __Titan__

    __Titan__ Member

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    She just looks so clean
     
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  6. Nate G

    Nate G Well-Known Member

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    I decided to utilize a bow cannon for this build.
    It is mounted in the way recommended on the website and was quite easy to set up. the deckhouse cover is held in place with a piece of brass tubing glued to the plastic part and fits over a rod, in this case a piece of Carbon Fiber I had laying around but a smaller brass tube, wood dowel, aluminum rod or tube would also work.
    The barrel is supported by a 1/2 inch dowel that serves as the turret pivot. It will be finalized when I do the sea trials and aiming.
    another angle of progress thus far.
     
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  7. Nate G

    Nate G Well-Known Member

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    Thanks. this is a well thought out kit and not this company's first rodeo. It goes together very intuitively with the optional parts for a complete setup. It is not the baddest ship on the water but it will have a role in battle and makes a great first build for a beginner.
     
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  8. Nate G

    Nate G Well-Known Member

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    And now Gearing2
    u0i9g9s1RFCxEZ+YOYrHeQ.jpg ELrjr5KTT9ShzGqzSwxZZQ.jpg Nd3g9%UDRym3tNGJqwPCAQ.jpg The next step up in volume is a Gearing built with a little more added depth. To my knowledge, the only current mold for this is a Ralph Coles mold location not known to me. I was given ( My Thanks to Steve Andrews and the Maryland group) an older hull, possibly a Swampy hull from maybe the 1980's, that did not see much use due to the limits of the tech at the time and had been sitting on a shelf.
    Since the Vac-u-Gearing is known to work, I decided to build this as a hybrid - making use of the components of the kit. I ordered a deck and subdeck as well as drive shafts and stuffing boxes from Phil. The old running gear come right out. The resins were not holding well. there was only one rudder and it hung out the stern. To keep it light, the original subdeck shell was all balsa and the cross members were a bit wide.
    First , I ripped out all the old gear. Then, I took a coarse carbide ball burr and ground off the surface of the entire inside of the hull and cleaned with acetone. Rudder posts were placed in a wood block drilled on the press for vertical accuracy and set up so the rudders just miss touching at 90 degrees . I made a wooden jig for the shafts that fits against the hull to hold the shafts aligned so the props just miss touching in front of the rudders , taped in all in place and epoxied it with U.S. Composites system and 3 layers of 6 ounce cloth.

    Rudder post mount was jigged with a second block of wood on the building board drilled for the same separation.
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Sep 24, 2019
  9. Nate G

    Nate G Well-Known Member

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    pictures did not get added the way I wanted so I will try again.
    Texturing from the burr is visible on the bare parts of hull.
    remnants of first deck and subdeck still visible and original rudder hole not filled in yet.
    shaft reinforcement is solid and motors are awaiting mounts
    alignment block for new rudder posts. having a boat stand that holds the hull steady is very helpful.
    new posts in place and old hole filled and sealed.

     
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  10. Nate G

    Nate G Well-Known Member

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    The shafts have a fairly flat angle and the best I could do given that I wanted to do a solid drive system coupling without dog bones and also not use a geared drive.
    the next part is a little different for me. I wanted to keep the deck and subdeck light but stronger that the existing balsa setup. The Vac-u-subdeck with CF rod reinforcement is probably the smart way to go. I, However, tried a more classic approach. I set my Dremel router to cut 1/8 inch deep and cut down the old balsa subdeck to insert a 1/8 aircraft plywood subdeck so I could more sturdily attach items if desired and then epoxied the vacuum formed subdeck to this.





    For hull attachment, I slipped magnets in between the layers with some thickened epoxy - half west systems adhesive filler and half micro balloons to keep weight down.
    Here are the old and the new decks for comparison. the discs on the outer edge of the new deck are the magnets. note that I elected to use a simple screw attachment at the extreme stern. old deck appears to be 1/16 inch basswood for flat surfaces and balsa blocks - very light weight and great option for the time.

    Rudder servo mount is designed to take a polycarbonate sliding servo mount to adjust tension on the plastic chain drive rudder control system.
    Motor mounts are a piece of hardwood drilled with a Forstner bit to the size of the motor cans, split in half and affixed to hull with Filled epoxy. Another option to consider is E6000 or Marine Goop. By building up a small layer under the wood, there is some vibration dampening that I like. Either way, with a well aligned setup, the resulting system has fairly quiet in runin testing.
    capping it off is a 6-32 bolt and nut clamping with an Aluminum bar. I added some rubber padding when it started slipping a little but I am not satisfied with this yet.

    Phil's setup uses a mount with more coverage of the motor - I sanded mine down too much I think - and he has front and back end stops to prevent the motors from moving fore and aft. This is a very good idea and works better than this setup. I may go "back" to my previous preferred setup for brushed motors which is a stainless steel automotive hose clamp.
     
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2019
  11. Nate G

    Nate G Well-Known Member

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    While waiting for parts, I will switch gears to the Capitani Romano Class 1 from BC. I grouped these together to compare and contrast ideas for Class 1 builds.
    To start, the hull is nice and thick.

    Rib layout

    And sitting next to the plans with preliminary subdeck shaped and in place

    Deck will be held on with magnets. Therefore, I set the drill press to clear the correct size hole and leave the last layer of ply intact. magnets are mounted from bottom with E6000.

    I shaped 3 pieces of wood to the hull contour and mounted them to a piece of pine for building and transport. This holds the ship in a stable fashion for work. Here is the stern view with the jig I made to hold the shafts in place for epoxying.

    Prep is my usual: grind entire inner hull with carbide ball burr in front of a 4 inch dust collector port. wipe down with acetone. Everything bonds well.
    stuffing tubes placed by filling with grease and shafts to prevent seizing if epoxy gets near parts. rough up brass tubes with emery cloth, spot CA in place with hull taped down to board and template/jig holding shafts. wet some 6 ounce FG cloth with thin 6 hour epoxy - West or US Composites medium speed hardener - thicken the rest of the batch with suitable product. I used cotton flock and some FG grindings. Paint this on and cover with 3 layers of cloth. Oh, and the outside has blue masking tape to control the mess.

    Add my now standard small ship rudder control fixture

    Which should be made with the rudder post as a part of it for uniformity and coplanar accuracy . But I forgot. it works well anyway. motor mounts are my usual brushed setup of wood shaped with forester bit. in this case , GOOPed in place. I like the slightly rubbery result which helps dampen vibrations.
    motors will be held with hose clamps mounted with Goop or E6000 and at least 2 layers of .5 inch fiberglass strips extending over the Goop bonding the mounts to the hull. the plastic wrap covered shapes are 1 pound lead ingots used to hold the ship on its side for photos.

    add the polycarbonate servo mount , sprockets and plastic chain.
    I find this works well for ships under 12 - 15 pounds. heavier ships I would use the next size larger chain or go to gears.
     
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2019
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  12. Nate G

    Nate G Well-Known Member

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    And here she is ready for subdeck

    Something to watch when choosing rudder servos. The new 5-9 gram servos are very interesting but many have tiny splines that do not take the servo city gears and sprockets directly. check carefully before ordering. This one takes a standard Futaba spline horn/sprocket. with the true tiny ones, you must bond the sprocket to a factory wheel. just another step to add. Sigh.

    Subdeck has a wider area for positioning the pump outlet.

    subdeck is in 2 pieces to allow for the bow section angling up.
     
  13. Nate G

    Nate G Well-Known Member

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    Now for topside:
    the first level of superstructure is 1/16th aircraft ply over balsa or foam for lightness and easy repair.
    Above this , the super will be all 3D printed. Thanks to son-in-law Chris for his CAD expertise. I have not learned the art yet but am working on it. He uses GeoMagic Design and we print on a Zortrax M200. These were printed with Ultrat which is polycarbonate reinforced ABS.

    Overall:

    Bow main super


    Mid area with gun shields and second stack:
    A red LED inside the stacks looks really cool.
     
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  14. Nate G

    Nate G Well-Known Member

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    Control for these ships initially, will be the recommended starter radio. the 6 channel i6 available from turnigy and FrSky for about $50. I bought mine from Hobby King but the school did not want to use PayPal - go figure - so we had to use Amazon and the FrSky version is the same radio.

    A couple of Modificatios:
    Mod 1 - I have added the optional left stick centering kit available on ebay for $3. installs in 5 minutes. since I like a left stick throttle and center off in the water.
    Mod 2 - is replacing the SWITCH D with a push button - the menu can be used to set this as control for the channel you use for fire control.
    Mod 3 - adds another momentary switch in the back. I traditionally use a push button in the same position as my hand would find a trigger on a 1911. for this, I decided to try Carl's idea of a large and durable lever-click switch. It feels quite natural. These switches are very durable.

    Interestingly, the students and teachers in the STEM program have no preconceived notions on how to set up radios. As most are right handed, they want to use the right stick for throttle and steering and use buttons and levers on the left side for cannon and pump control . This would actually work quite well, and, SW B is 3 position. This would make a nice pump switch set up as off/low/full power. Hmmm.

    Hopefully , more progress today. as you can see, I have the day off. Grin.
     
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2019
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  15. bsgkid117

    bsgkid117 Vendor

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    The kids in the school program who are taking part in this grew up with Xbox and PlayStation controllers in their hands. Firing buttons on the upper back of the radio facing upward (towards the antenna) like the radio you already modded will feel extremely natural to them.
     
  16. absolutek

    absolutek -->> C T D <<--

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    @Nate G Bryan Michenfelder from the OAF has the mold for the Gearing. I don't think he is making hulls anymore, and i don't believe he has responded to the people I have tried over the years to send his way to buy it or the other molds he has.

    I do have one of the Gearing hulls made from that mold and ran it at 2012 mwci Nats. However it was slightly overweight by about 1.5oz.
     
  17. Kotori87

    Kotori87 Well-Known Member

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    Interesting. Most kids I know prefer the left hand for movement, right hand for weapons. That's certainly the standard I see in most videogames, and that is what most kids play nowadays. It makes a strange sort of sense in this application though, since these ships you aim by moving.
     
  18. Nate G

    Nate G Well-Known Member

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    Regulator options:
    Vac-u-boat introduced me to a new item, the "beverage regulator". A few years ago, the new fad/hobby of making your own sodas emerged. To carbonate the beverages, you need a CO2 system and regulator. result, moderate interest and I cannot find much on the net. However, when someone decided you could make beer at home and need to carbonate that... Major interest and a resulting product that we can use. While there are many size options available, the one of interest is the little mini reg that runs off of threaded capsules. most of these unfortunately max out at 30 or 45 PSI so be careful, but 150 psi regulators - try keg regulator - are out there on Amazon and from other suppliers. these things even come with a gauge built in it.


    this picture shows a bev reg that I modified per the vacuGearing instructions. next to it is my planned upgrade for the larger Class 1's. This is BC's lightweight regulator with an adapter from Palmer Pursuit for threaded cartridges. Modified beverage reg weight 104 grams and the BC w adapter weighs 109 grams. Not bad. my hypothesis is that the more expensive combo of the BC reg plus an adapter will have higher flow but I need to test. Shop carefully. the keg regulators can go for as little as $20 to as much as $100 and they all look like they were made in the same factory.

    I have had to make some changes. I was unhappy with the motor mount in Gearing2, so I tore it out and replaced it with stainless steel automotive hose clamps. I lock these in place with 3 layers of 4-6 ounce fiberglass cloth strips and , though I used to use slow cure epoxy for this, have switched to GOOP or E6000 for this.
    I like the grip on the motors and feel this gives a little vibration dampening.

    As you can see, planned bilge pump is the BC micro pump.

    fire control is upgraded to a Spartan solenoid for its light weight with an expansion tank.

    For power, I like Lipos and like the protection afforded by the packs designed for ROAR racing which require a reinforced hardcase. I place this totally within a wooden frame to lock it in place and further protect it.

    The mount for the CO2 for both Gearing2 and Capitani will be something I just dreamed up. I took a block of wood - I used basswood because it was on the shelf but a pine 2x4 would work. Bored it with forester bits: 7/8"- the size of the CO2 cartridge, 1/2" - the size of the adapted /neck connection, and 1 1/8" - the size of the regulator. The transition from cartridge neck will need to be tapered with a ball end burr on the dremel. A strong magnet is embedded in the neck junction. This is along the lines of the holder developed by Vac-u-boat for the keg reg. I wanted a more complete mount and so designed this. it seems to work well. Looking back; now that I have actually weighed the 2 regulators, I suspect that the molded holder from vacuboat is smaller, lighter and would work just as well and save the trouble of this fabrication but i will try both on the pond and see.
     
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2019
  19. Nate G

    Nate G Well-Known Member

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    Houston, we have a problem.

    Sigh, despite my initial planning, I found a space issue when trying to install a stern cannon. the interruptor hits the rudder servo mount. This picture shows the Tee with the bottom off and I have already started to grind away the stern portion of the mount so it is moved part way to the new position. Sorry , no pre-grind pix.

    so , I ground off the forward block and will move the servo further astern.


    this shows the space gained and the new support will go in today and get shaped.

    Phil Pace has 2 suggestions on mounting his Predator cannon as a stern gun that would keep the entire assembly in the superstructure. but, I would like to cover the breech/Tee and am not sure I can do this. I may be able to add superstructure features that will cover it as these destroyers had a lot of in Theater mods made to add aux gun tubs and ,later, radar towers.

    thoughts?
     
    Last edited: May 4, 2019
  20. Sinkazuki

    Sinkazuki Active Member

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    Nate,
    What is the weight difference between the BC lite and the beverage regulator?
    What pressure does the beverage regulator put out?
    Thx
    Randy