HMS Cumberland Build

Discussion in 'Warship Builds' started by Bob Pottle, Jun 2, 2018.

  1. Bob Pottle

    Bob Pottle Well-Known Member

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    I started to build this model as HMS Suffolk in 1997, using one of my Kent/Canarias Class cruiser hulls and cutting down the quarterdeck. I got the molded fiberglass decks, internal armour and drive train installed but decided to build Canarias instead because it could battle as Axis or Allied. The incomplete model was sold to someone in eastern Nova Scotia and then to Brechin Piper and his dad, who I helped install the internal systems and guns.

    The model was active in the NABS fleet but ended up in storage for about 8 years. The fiberglass hull and deck and the drive train were sound but otherwise Suffolk was in rough shape when I bought it from Brechin in 2016 with intent to restore it and Canarias simultaneously. I'd done nothing with it since then except for gutting the interior and making a 50% larger rudder.

    When Larry Dingle made an offer for Suffolk and Canarias 2 weeks ago I did my first thorough inspection of Suffolk and found it needed a completely new superstructure and hull resheeting. Many of the balsa panels weren't securely attached and could be popped off with a little pressure. It had been resheeted with long pieces of balsa that couldn't be bent to fully contact the complex curves of the bulged hull, so between the ends of the panels much of the balsa wasn't attached to intervening ribs or the bulge stringer.

    The model is in no shape to sell so I've decided to rebuild it as HMS Cumberland and use it for a couple of years, after which Larry and Ben will probably add it to their fleet. The pros are that it's at a more advanced stage of construction than Indefatigable and Profintern, neither of which has prop shafts or drive system installed, and I've built an almost identical model (Canarias) before. I should have it in the water this fall.

    The reason for building it as Cumberland is that although the two ships were identical (the only Kent Class cruisers with cut-down quarterdecks), Cumberland lost the huge, ugly cube-shaped aircraft hangar aft in 1944.

    I think the cut-down quarterdeck will give a slight advantage in combat over Canarias because the dual stern cannons can be depressed further, allowing hits at closer range. It'll be interesting to see how it handles with the 50% larger rudder. The NABS Counties (Suffolk and Canberra) and Canarias had a turning circle a few feet wider than a North Carolina.

    The height of the waterline markings indicates the model was quite a bit over-weight. They're about 1/2" higher than on Canarias, which has almost the same maximum weight.
     

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    Last edited: Jun 2, 2018
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  2. Bob Pottle

    Bob Pottle Well-Known Member

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    More photos: original drive train, same design as the one installed in Canarias a year later, hull modification to reduce quarterdeck height, and attempted scribing of planking on the deck, which I'd started before selling it in 1997. The gelcoat wasn't thick enough for easy scribing so I think I'll sand the very shallow lines off.

    I have a couple of pump outlet holes to fill - there are two in the deck and a horizontal one in the bulwark of the quarterdeck.

    I wish I'd made a spare hull before selling the mold; I'd love to build an early short-funnelled Kent Class in China Station colours: white hull, wooden decks, buff superstructure.

    I bought the Profile Morskie plans for HMS Frobisher, another heavy cruiser that was on the China Station, so might make a hull mold for it.

    The Frobishers were an interesting class of cruisers: Vindictive was converted to an experimental aircraft carrier after WWI, then to a cadet training ship, and in WWII to a fleet repair ship, so it could be used as a convoy ship. Another variant was Effingham, converted just before WWII from 7.5" to 6" single guns and wrecked on an uncharted reef during the Norwegian Campaign - a very handsome ship. Their bulged hulls were derived from battlecruiser Furious' hull design.
     

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    Last edited: Jun 2, 2018
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  3. Bob Pottle

    Bob Pottle Well-Known Member

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    I thought a few balsa panels were salvageable but found the bottom edges are off the hull and the gaps were filled by a lot of body fill. The paint on the lower hull is in multiple layers and quite thick so I've been softening it and the body fill with acetone and scraping it off. There's old plastic wood beneath the body fill - it must have been used as a gap filler in the first re-sheeting after I sold the hull; I didn't use any when it was first sheeted. It's going to take hours to remove the paint, body fill and old ca glue, probably longer than it will take to re-sheet the hull. I hope to have the hull cleaned up in a week.
     
  4. djranier

    djranier Well-Known Member

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    I would agree, with my Mogami, I just use 2 pieces for both side, takes mere minutes to sheet, but hours at times to take off, and scrape it clean.
     
  5. Bob Pottle

    Bob Pottle Well-Known Member

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    Made progress today on removing thick layers of paint from the hull, plus body fill and plastic wood apparently applied to seal the lower edges of balsa panels where they weren't fully in contact with the hull.

    I used acetone to soften the paint and other stuff, scraped, then sanded with #180 wet and dry sandpaper. The area around the prop shafts will be harder to clean. When the hull bottom is done I'll remove the old ca glue from the sides.

    The 21 year old hull is in very good condition; no damage to ribs, one bulge stringer with a chip out of it and very little gelcoat damage on the rest of the hull. I don't think Suffolk saw much action.
     

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    Last edited: Jun 12, 2018
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  6. Bob Pottle

    Bob Pottle Well-Known Member

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    More paint removal today; working on ca glue removal from the ribs and stringers. Cut off 2mm of the stern skeg to allow the front of the longer rudder to clear it.

    I'll be taking a short break from Cumberland to finish repairing Canarias' superstructure and get the ship ready to ship back to SC. Before Canarias is shipped I'll install Cumberland's brass servo mounts in the same positions and copy Canarias' internal armor panels, which will be identical except for the 2 in the cut-down quarterdeck area.

    Canarias, built in 1998, had the same drive train, armour and rudder systems as Suffolk/Cumberland, built in 1997. When I bought both ships back in 2015-2016 the plan was to refit both models with identical internal systems, converting Canarias back to CO2 capsules with Palmer regulators and doing the same with Cumberland. (I have hundreds of military surplus CO2 capsules.)

    When built Canarias used 36 gm CO2 capsules, which fit nicely between the prop shafts and left lots of room amidships for batteries. The capsules provided more than enough CO2 to tweak the cannons and then fire 100 BBs.

    I don't know what Larry Dingle used for a battery after switching to a CO2 bottle. The battery used in Cumberland, which was completed with a CO2 bottle after I sold it, was bigger and taller than the two I was able to fit in Canarias, but had less total capacity and caused a higher center of gravity.
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2018
  7. Bob Pottle

    Bob Pottle Well-Known Member

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    This afternoon I found the wooden masters for the Canarias and Kent Class 8" gun turret molds, made in 1997. I'd forgotten I still had them - they'd fallen off a shelving unit (probably many years ago) and were out of sight behind the water meter. The turret molds were sold to Strike Models along with the Kent/Canarias hull mold.

    The masters are in good condition so I can make another Kent Class turret mold and replace the 3 damaged turrets I got with the Suffolk/Cumberland.

    In the photos the Kent Class turrets are the longer ones with the curved rear wall. The Canarias Class turrets were slightly smaller though the 8" guns were very similar - a weight saving measure?

    The 2 turret molds were laid up simultaneously, then separated with a hacksaw before removal from the masters.
     

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    Last edited: Jun 14, 2018
  8. Bob Pottle

    Bob Pottle Well-Known Member

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    Good progress in the 24 hrs after the Canarias refit was finished - the old ca glue has been removed from ~2/3 of Cumberland's hull. I've been painting on acetone repeatedly to decrease the strength of the bond and scraping it off.

    I've bought sheets of styrene for the new syperstructure and internal armour, ABS pipe for the barbettes, and have a Camurati pump ready to install in front of the drive motors.
     
  9. Bob Pottle

    Bob Pottle Well-Known Member

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    Cumberland's starboard side is ready to resheet. The ca glue was removed with multiple applications of acetone and a lot of scraping; the gelcoat was sanded smooth with wet 'wet and dry' sandpaper. The port side is half done.

    Some holes to fill in the fiberglass deck. Two were pump outlets, the aft one being the original; the cluster of 3 holes was for a Futaba radio on/off switch. There's a 3rd (horizontal) pump hose exit in the vertical wall between quarterdeck and forecastle deck.

    I'd started to scribe the deck planking before I sold the hull in 1998, but will apply filler and get rid of the marks because the gelcoat isn't thick enough everywhere for a good scribing job.


    IMG_3164.JPG


    IMG_3165.JPG
     
  10. Bob Pottle

    Bob Pottle Well-Known Member

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    The project is on hold for 10 days while I'm away. When I'm back I'll finish filling in the scribe marks and the multiple holes in the deck. Haven't decided whether to install the pump outlet vertically or horizontally at the break of the forecastle deck, pointing aft. I remember Ralph Coles installing a pump outlet aft - the stream could move the model forward (very slowly) when the motors were off.
     
  11. Bob Pottle

    Bob Pottle Well-Known Member

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    It's hard to believe it's been more than 2 years since the last post on this build. Divorce in 2018-2019 prevented my planned retirement in Dec. 2018. I had to go back to work almost full time to recover lost retirement savings and all ship projects were brought to a halt.

    2020 has been spent on work and interior home renovations but the renos will be done in a couple of weeks and I'm leaving work in December. Lots of time for hobbies as of Dec. 24!

    The Cumberland refit is the first project on the list. I've got a new interior work area: the former kitchen extension (a 100 yr old enclosed porch) was found to have extensive carpenter ant damage, a non-code ramshackle under-structure, and a layer of asbestos tiles among many layers of old plank floors. That makes it unrepairable so it will be demolished and replaced in the spring. That gives me a gutted, but heated and wired 8' x 22' workspace separated from the rest of the house by a temporary wall for the next 6 months. No problem with fiberglassing inside now!

    The next phase of the Cumberland rebuild is a new styrene superstructure. The original Suffolk superstructure built by Brechin Piper and his dad many years ago was quite accurate but is too damaged to reuse.
     
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  12. Boatmeister

    Boatmeister Active Member

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    Can't wait to see the results
     
  13. bb26

    bb26 Well-Known Member

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    The world awaits the pointy stick
     
  14. Nate G

    Nate G Well-Known Member

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    Sorry to hear about life's crises. Glad you arehandling things and it sounds like quite well! an inside glassing area is great to have. good luck with the projects.
     
  15. Bob Pottle

    Bob Pottle Well-Known Member

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    I think I'll go with the Cumberland's 1945 appearance; found a few more photos of the aft superstructure that replaced the huge, box-like seaplane hangar. Overall it looks like the superstructure on the Kent Class ships that didn't have the seaplane hangar. I have a couple of 1/1250 models of Kents without hangars so will come up with a design based on those and the photos. In 1945 the aft superstructure supported two searchlight platforms and some light AA guns, so it's not very big. Getting rid of the hangar will reduce top-weight and the large flat surfaces that can be affected by wind.

    Like Canarias, Cumberland uses one of my hulls designed to be suitable for both the Kent and Canarias Class (intermediate dimensions). The internal layout will be identical to that used in Canarias, with a 35 gm CO2 capsule system and 'Rock the Boat' mini-regulator. I have all the internal components and cannons; the prop shafts, motor mounts, pump mount and rudder are installed.

    My original wiring harness was replaced with a bit of a rat's nest so a new one has to be made and new water channeling installed. After I've quit work the guts should be completed in a couple of weeks. Sheeting will take a couple of days but the superstructure will take several weeks to build. I'm hoping to complete the model by the end of February, then move on to the Russian CL Profintern which has it's geared tandem rudders and prop shafts installed.
     
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  16. Bob Pottle

    Bob Pottle Well-Known Member

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    Two years later and nothing's been done with Cumberland, Indefatigable or Profintern but the wooden frames for the London/Dorsetshire, Almirante Cervera and Java hull plugs are finally glued together.

    Minor repairs to the HMS Frobisher Class mold were needed after the last hull pull. If wanted, more more hulls can be made in the spring.

    2021-2022 was taken up with work and an addition to the house. The addition provided a finished basement with multiple windows, bright LED lighting and good headroom compared to the 100+ year old section. The new basement is specifically for hobbies so the design included a duct through the ICF foundation for venting fiberglass fumes. Contrary to the 2020 plan I worked until a few months ago due to staff shortages but am finally done with clinical work. I'll be working on a provincial board 1-2 days per week in 2023 so will have more time to work on models, hull plugs, and molds.

    My friend Curt Stokes has been a great inspiration to get back into R/C ships. He's built a gorgeous 1/144 model of HMS Hood using a hull made from my 1997 mold.
     
  17. Lord Haw Haw

    Lord Haw Haw Member

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    Hello Bob,
    Wonderful to find you on here. You sent me two Duke of Edinburgh/Black Prince cruiser hulls in the early 2000s. I lived in Massachusetts at the time.
    Sadly lost both hulls somewhere in the move south and huge amout of rc boat stuff. Don't care about the other stuff, but I do so miss those hulls. Only thing have left are the turrets. Hope you are well sir.

    Daniel S.