All Very interesting discussion here. Our rules were written in such a way as to be easily understandable, and have little, or no areas that could be interpreted in more than one way. It would seem, that this may be an area of confusion. I am going to paste the rule in question here, so that we can pick it apart, and see what we have.. Mikey
Splitting a full unit cannon – Captains can split full unit cannons into ½ units and add the ½ units to already existing cannons. For example, the captain of a South Dakota class battleship (6 units) can take one of the three stern cannons out and add ½ unit of ammo to each of their sidemount. Or, they could take out one of the three stern cannons and have two 75 round (1.5 unit) stern cannons. NOTE: This rule does not apply to ships with twin side-firing turrets. All side-firing turrets with 2 cannons (twin mounted side-firing) are limited to 100 rounds max. (2 50 round magazines per turret).
Now in this case.. The Furious, as a battlecruiser, with a single barrel turret foreward, and a single barrel turret aft, and a pump... Keep in mind that I am only posting my oppinions on the rules concerning this very unusual ship. Our rules were written in such a way as to make ships such as the Furious more buildable, but allowing the captains more flexability in how they armed them, without giving them an un-fair advantage over the ships that were already being built, and had a place in the small-gun formats. Mikey
Furious battlecruiser. 4 units over-all length approx. 786' 6" Speed 31.5 knots (31 knots) = 29 seconds over the 100' course. She gets the extra rudder area, as she is over 700' long. So how can one set her up?? Now again. These are just my oppinions based on the rules as I read them... So feel free to question my oppinions. I personaly would set her up as follows. 1.5 unit rotating bow cannon. (75 rounds) 1.5 unit rotating stern cannon. (75 rounds) 1 unit battlecruiser pump. ( 1 gpm ) Now if you think that the set-up for units is questionable, then you probably won't agree with me wanting to make the bow and stern turrets rotate to the same side (both at the same time). That is how I would like to set her up. I am not saying that I can set her up like that. I am asking anyone to explain to me WHY I couldn't set her up like that. Mikey
Now another way to set Furious up would be like this. 1 unit bow cannon (50 rounds). 1 unit stern cannon (50 rounds). 2 unit battlecruiser pump (1.5 gpm). Maybe rotate one, or even both turrets. Mikey
On another note. We originally had looked into the possibility of allowing limited side-mount capabilities for the aircraft-carriers. Either one unit per side, or even a half-unit per side just as a defense against capital-ships just parking alongside then, and pounding on them with side-mounts. Something along the lines of the side-defense systems that the aircraft-carriers have in the big-gun formats. But there was some concern that we were going too far with making the aircraft-carriers more buildable, possiby to the point of making them too powerful for game-play. Considering that the carriers were already carrying more units than they would in the fast-gun clubs, ( we had carried over the units from BBS ), the carriers were already rather buildable, as some would have as many as 6-8 units for the fleet carriers, and their speed was based on the actual ship's speed. So in the end we kept to limiting the carriers cannons to the bow, and stern quadrants, and allowing the cannons to be placed under the flight-deck, (again like in big-gun). Mikey
Mike I agree with you there. The problem is that I have not found the time to get to it yet. I do know that she will be a good ship in Treaty, as a lot of the attributes that she had in big-gun will carry over, and I ran her in the MBG for years. Here are some of the things about her that I already know. Although she is slow (minimum warship speed 22 knots = 38 seconds), she will turn pretty good, as she has twin rudders (side-by-side), and the rudder area is based on her being a class 5 ship. She also gets a battleship pump, as she was converted from a Normandie hull. So she will have good survivability. She gets 4 units in cannons, and although they have to be in the bow, and stern quadrants, they should be very effective, as most ships will be trying to run her down, probably trying to bring their own side-mounts into play. You know. The more we discuss the carriers, the more fun it sounds. I probably need to take another look at my projects schedule, and move her closer to the top (again). Mikey
Heh. Mikey, I'll be in your area for about 4 - 5 days starting July 7th or 8th. If you got some time, we can work on the Bearns.
Mikey, I'm going to build the first HMS Furious model in the battlecruiser configuration that worked best for HMS Courageous: 2 x 1.5 unit sidemounts and a 1 unit pump. Although a rotating stern gun would be more effective than a bow gun due to its lower height, there may not be enough room between deck and keel to install the geared, twin shaft rotating system used in my HMS Hood. A rotating bow turret does not pose a problem, and was used in the Courageous. I plan to build a second HMS Furious in WWI full carrier configuration with dual BB cannons fore and aft and a 1 unit pump. The bow guns will protrude from the sides of the forward aircraft launching ramp just above deck level and even with the bow. The aft guns will be inside the hangar doors in about the same position as the stern gun on the battlecruiser version. Painted up in full dazzle camo the carrier version should be quite a sight, though probably not very effective in combat! An airship will be modelled tethered to the rear flight deck, with a few biplanes forward. If the weather cooperates the Furious hull mold should be finished by June 23. Bad Bob
Under the new treaty rules for carriers you could have tripple stern and single front or 2 75s stern and single front.The bearn is going one way or the other i cant decide which
I wasn't completely happy with the ram bow or port antitorpedo bulge shape so modified both this week. The ram bow is thinner but still slightly wider than scale to facilitate glass lay-up. I've got the bulge shapes as good as I can make them and have resealed the hull plug. Final sanding will be done this afternoon and molding flanges added tomorrow, then on to waxing and mold lay-up. Due to the mods the mold will be done a couple of weeks later than planned (approx. July 6). Bad Bob
Molding flanges are attached and waxing of the hull plug has started. The first half of the mold will be gelcoated this week and fiberglassed after the Canada Day long weekend. The second half of the mold will be laid up by July 6-7th. The mold surface will need a couple of days of fine sanding with #400 wet and dry paper, and will be waxed for hull production before I go on vacation for 2 weeks. The first HMS Furious hull will be made by the end of July. After reviewing the two Profile Warship series publications on Furious I've decided not to enlarge the bulges on the plug and make a second hull mold for the post-1925/WWII hull. HMS Furious in its final configuration would be such a complex model to build I don't think many people would attempt it. (I wouldn't!) Good news on the carrier front is that Ralph Coles and I discussed carrier hull projects on the weekend and he may do another British carrier. (Ralph made the HMAS/HMS Albatross mold for me.) We discussed the Ark Royal, Victorious, Eagle, Argus and Hermes. Ralph has detailed plans for the Victorious/Illustrious and prefers it to the higher sided Ark Royal. We couldn't come up with a plans source for Eagle or Argus but could wing the latter, which was a converted liner hull with bulges added. There are some small drawings of Argus but no cross-sections. However there are many photos so the above water portion should be fairly accurate. Very expensive plans for the Hermes are available from the UK. If Ralph does a Victorious hull I'll do Hermes or Argus. Bad Bob
It will be great to see carriers out there on the water in combat. Bob, did you see I figured out how to post pictures on the forum? Well, it took the help of a 10 year old. Yahoo is much easier.
Bobosan, I haven't shot any digital photos yet. Too busy working on the Furious hull plug. I need my wife to download and post photos so will try to shoot a bunch and get them posted before the weekend, after which she'll be away for 4 weeks. I can provide photos of the new Graf Spee hull and the Furious plug with molding flanges attached. I'll get my brother to scan several large 35 mm prints of Courageous during it's years in Nova Scotia and will send those too. Bob
That's cool, get the plug done and then take some pictures and post. If you have any problems posting the pics on here just do what I did and find one of the youngsters next door and ask them how to do it. I am looking forward to seeing them. I like to look at quality workmanship.
Half way there! The starboard side of the HMS Furious mold was laid up last night (a 3 hour process due to the complex shape and very wide bulges). The port side of the plug will be waxed tonight and the port side of the mold laid up by the weekend. If there are no major gelcoat problems when the mold is removed from the plug, a few days of fine sanding will complete the mold. Bob
The HMS Furious mold came off the plug this morning with two small gelcoat defects and a few shallow ripples (16") that can be sanded out (the gelcoat was applied approx. 1/8" thick to allow for this). The mold should be ready for use after a couple of evenings of sanding and polishing. I plan to lay up the first hull after I return from vacation in late July and will build it as the hybrid BC/CV. Hulls will be available for sale starting in August. Bob
