How much does it cost and can you build a cruiser for 500 or less

It wasn't a challenge, but I did want to see your recommendations within that category. You did a good job and I am sure any new recruit in your area would benefit with your assistance in building such a boat. I pretty much came up with the same numbers. However.. wood hull building can be beyond the capabilities for many new guys.. INCLUDING ME

As for Hobby King equipment.. the first ship I have ever seen that had hobby king products that worked throughout a single event.. was Carl at the recent Brouhaha. Other than that I have only seen Hobby King products fail and fail and fail, radios included. Once I see their products show up at Nats and work all week long... I will consider recommending them. I think Nats is the big proving ground.. and brutal regionals like the Brouhaha. If your boat can survive both of those events.. make every sortie.. without failures... then I want to know what you are running in your boat. Until then... I avoid Hobby King, sorry if that offends anyone.

I think we should move recruit recommendations into a new thread as this thread has been 'hijacked' by us. This was about Alfred finding local folks and I would say they have been identified. I would love to continue this conversation in a new thread if a Moderator is willing to move the convo there.

See you,

Johnny

 

Ok, now you're just bragging

 

I do love a good Axis ship.

 

My first question.. Is the $500 cruiser a boat that most would want to battle? I certainly wouldn't... not even as a Rookie. Even on a budget I wouldn't want particular configuration but I have been in the hobby long enough to know the limitations of the different equipment and what I want out of a ship.

For example.. if was in Texas .. (I am) or MN or MI or anywhere else with a concentration of highly experience veteran captains of many Nats.... The $500 ship would not be able to keep up with the ships in those battle areas. Sure.. I could sit outside the battle and back in and go pling............................. pling ........................... pling.................. but in the same amount of time the other cruiser goes pling pling pling pling pling pling before I can get away. I cant see anyone being happy with that.. unless the other ships go pling............................. pling ........................... pling................... Which brings me back to the point of using the same equipment as the local battlers.

Another example.. every single battler in Texas that I am aware of using solenoids.... Doug, Ted, Tony Johnny Brian Gerald Dirty Jeff Mark Chris Tim.. and the next closest guy in LA will be soon. That is the way we build and battle down here. I am not going to suggest to a new recruit in Texas to use a poppet ship when every other captain is using solenoids... I think that is a dis-service.

Now if the captain will battle 1 time every year or two then maybe... but then I don't even see the point of even building a boat at that point.. just borrow one and save the money. I want a Captain with a boat on the water.. not in the workshop for 3 years like I was as a rookie. I think too many folks forget this is about model warship COMBAT and ship building is a means to getting there.

As far as HK stuff... give me 1 or 2 failures.. and I am done. I am not willing to use equipment that fails from time to time. I spend a lot of money to travel to Nats or to out of town regionals.. I don't want to sit out of even 1 sortie because something fails occasionally just to save 30 bucks.. that is my personal opinion of course. I nearly abandoned my Spektrum DX6i over the un-binding issue I had... I had turned off the radio while the RX and boat were still powered which caused 'holds' on the receiver and pulled the RCV battery before turning the radio back on. I had to re-bind as a result... I can work around it... just don't turn off the radio.. but it still ticked me off. The benefits of the radio right now outweigh that 1 issue... it has a modular gimbal I can remove and replace without altering the radio, built-in timer, 4 cell battery compartment (no pack needed), and I was able to buy foam cut-outs for $17 that I put in my carrying cases.

So I will point out a few HK incidents but as I didn't get all the info, I am sure they will respond with the appropriate answer or missing information. To some people it may not matter to me it does.

At the Brouhaha in 2010 Jeff Lide purchased 2.4G conversion modules and ended up missing a lot of battling due to failure. The problem seemed to be with the implementation of 2.4G by HK because anytime he had his radio near another non-HK 2.4G radio.. his radio would stop working and he had to declare his ship sunk. That was all I needed to see... I could only assume all their radios had the same software implementation. I am not spending 60 bucks to find out.

I know you used it in 2012 but I didn't think you too much damage or sunk.. I don't think that is a fair test of the equipment. What did you guys use in your ships when you came to the last Brouhaha? If it was HK motors and brushless pumps.. did they work all weekend long? I had forgotten you guys may have been using HK that weekend.

Mike Mangus had problems in 2013 .. I guess the water caused issues... but in my mind either way it was an HK failure. If it wasn't HK stuff then I am mis-informed.

Kessler has had good luck but I was told he was have HK failures/problems in 2012.. I am not sure what the issue was and he was able to overcome the issue. I am sure he will respond to tell us what it is.

On a side note..Mtroniks failed.. never again... TX battery packs in general are a pain... never again.. a firing board keeps trying to verify the connection with the receiver before operating... I'm done.... Banebots requires neutral stick before it operates... I will use them until they fail ( I have a spring on my throttle so its not an issue) but not on a ratchet-throttle radio ship.

Almost everything I use has been in use since 2009 and has had EXTENSIVE testing... so sure one day.. I am sure I will try brushless ... its inevitable.. and HK has the only reasonable pricing on it. If it can survive a weekend of brutal battling a the Brouhaha I will take it to Nats... if not.. I will stick with brushed.

I am not ANTI-HK.. but at this point its not for me. Once day perhaps.. I am using their pouch battery packs for TX as an evaluation (with good results) but not ready to run the pouch packs as a main battery pack.. not yet.

This brings up another question.. why do you guys PUSH hobby king so hard? What is wrong with a recruit in Texas being suggested to use that products that the guys in Texas use? Or in telling a new recruit in Georgia to use what the guys in SAS use? I really don't understand that one...we should be working together on this stuff.. don't you agree folks?

 

I look forward to seeing it. I would be interested to see it run the EXACT configuration you suggested and see how it performs. If it can handle the job I am willing to try it.

 

I thought you were building one so why not use the suggest configuration. You may have already made other plans for that boat.

 

Its not about money or being a terror on the water (does building a good boat mean you are striving to be a terror?) ... alas .. anyone can throw the cheapest price point at every category of a boat.. that is easy.. I can drop the price to 450 with the new brushed esc we are using.... but is going cheap the BEST way to handle new guys?

Will it be reliable? Have you tested the ESC in the recommended config? If not how can you be sure it will be reliable? The Radio? The motors? For me its not about how cheap you can do the job... I am sure I can bid out my medical and dental needs to the lowest bidder (haha already have through obamacare actually) but is that the best way to handle it?

Oh and on the HK front I forgot one.... Add Mike T. that came to our event last September with a highly recommended brushless setup.. that failed. In went a mag throttle and he was back in business.

My main point is we should all work together to put newcomers in touch with local contacts and let them assist them in at LEAST being aware of the local battle scene, equipment, and advice (since they will be supported by that group) before they get flooded with every type and brand of product under the sun. There are many, many products that do the job in this hobby but the local scene should be the rule of thumb for newcomers.

And as you pointed out a long time ago (correct me if I am wrong) that you don't care if your equipment fails... you are there for friends. Now if I am at a local battle an hour from home... I would be upset but live through a failure.. I had motors fail at the last battle in Rosenberg and preferred to watch. I was tired from work and hosting and loaning boats..

However while I like Bob or Jeff or Kaz.. I don't want to spend weeks of preparing a ship for combat, driving for 2 days to the event, hauling and setting up all the equipment to the pond, just so I can run the boat for a little while until it has a problem and then sit back for the rest of the event and visit. Who would want to do all that. If my main concern was hanging with the guys as the number 1 priority.. it would be cheaper to fly out on a non-battle weekend than to go through all that work with the boat just for a reason to sit out and visit. I would rather battle with the guys and visit in the hotel or over dinner. This is SPARTA .. I mean Model Warship Combat..

I realize that for folks that rarely travel to events outside their home area, it may seem that a person with my perspective on the hobby may be a 'terror' or considered 'too competitive' but if you want to to be able to get your boat on the water for an entire week.. or for several regionals a year.. and not miss out on the event then you need a GOOD boat.. not the cheapest. My goal is to make sure folks know how to build a GOOD and RELIABLE boat, not just the cheapest floating craft they can toss on the water, but that is my opinion and I respect the right of others to do the opposite. Besides I am no terror on the water.. me and my boat barely register as annoying... right Tom!!

Why not come out to Nats for a second time and see what I am talking about. I would be glad to see you out there and we can compare systems. I for one would like to learn more about all this HK brushless stuff in person.

See ya

Johnny

 

2013 Nats was the only time I had massive failure of HK speed controls. And yes, it was the water. And yes, LOTS of people had issues with a wide assortment of electronics that week. Using the 2013 Nats as an example to single out HK stuff is probably narrow sighted.

I've used HK stuff for years. At the start, there was a learning curve along with failures. But then again, I was one of the first in the hobby to use HK stuff. Since then, my ships have been very reliable to include multiple Nats.

The point is that we use what we as individuals think works. We recommend based on our experiences. Bashing other equipment simply because it did not work for a certain person and did for another person is antagonistic. Better to make a recommendation, explain why, and let other people decide if it is for them.