How much does it cost and can you build a cruiser for 500 or less

Clark, you always do this when you feel challenged. Is your opinion the ONLY right one? I didn't say you were wrong or anything like that. Only that we should take local groups into account before bashing new recruits over the head with a flood of suggestions and a large variety of equipment. It leads to problems pond side and my goal is to make sure, in my area at least, that we can all (local captains and the forum) help them and make sure the new recruits have a good time. You have yet to even agree that recruits should be helped by their local groups.

I wasn't trying to insult you and sorry you feel that way, I simply responded in kind to your last response. I thought we had a good point/counter-point going. You are a great wood-worker and your skills with saws and wood is indisputable. I think your work on 3D printing and drawing is fantastic and top drawer. You have great knowledge on many subjects and was impressed with your discussion about motors and flux fields a while back.

And you are right, I don't know you very well, mainly because you have to my knowledge been to 1 Nats not attended many of the regionals I have so as a result I don't get to visit with you at dinner. However I have read most of your 7832 posts that you have made and that does provide some insight into your building methods and practices.

But I must say that just throwing out the cheapest cost boat for a new recruit to 'bite' on is not fair to the recruit. If that is a problem I am sorry, but I am entitled to an opinion same as you. I don't think a recruit should get equipment that must be tossed out as lost money in order to grow in the hobby.

Please allow me to add that I ALSO know what I am talking about, just because I am not as active on the forum, does not mean I have no knowledge on the subject. If you had attended some of the battles that I have attended you could have seen it.

I didn't and wasn't trolling .... I was trying to advise a recruit in my area to the best of knowledge and ability and in actuality I felt challenged and trolled but decided not to directly address it.. even though I am now.

I had hoped you would make it out to another Nats and show my your boat and teach me about brushless, of which I was totally serious. I hope you change your mind on things and look forward to talking to you soon.

Johnny

 

Expressing an opinion about a product is not antagonistic.... its just expressing an opinion. I didn't base my opinion on your problems in 2013.. it was MANY people with MANY HK products that failed. In fact out of 3 HK wing cameras I purchased 2 died within 60 days... (HK may not have mfr it but they did sell it). I took a chance and bought a charger from HK and a fan bearing went out in the first week but it still works.

I don't like Mtroniks either.. many folks don't. Should I let a new guy in my area buy one just because a person on the forum recommended it and I don't wont to offend the person that recommended it? Cmon! I have to try to keep this guy in the hobby... and if he or she finds out that I knew that Mtroniks didn't work well and that many, many captains had issues with it.... what kind of trusted veteran adviser would I be to this person? I feel I have a duty to the recruits in my area to steer them in the right direction regardless of what advice they were given by others. And they of course are free to reject any advice I give them same as anyone else.

Let me explain why I make the recommendations I do..

My opinions are also based on my personal experience. For Example: I bought a used ship in the past and prior to buying it I called some people to get their opinion on it. I was told what a wonderful ship it was, it was a great performer, etc. Once I got the ship it had constant issues that required re-engineering. When I called a few different folks about this boat I got the real scoop.. it rarely worked right. At first I thought I had been 'taken' but then I realized peoples assessment of what a 'good' ship is... varies wildly based on their personal experience. To me a good ship was measured against MWC Veterans like Jeff L, Tim B, Bob H, the Au's, and many other long time veterans. I learned that those folks that had initially advised me were not trying to deceive me... they were using a different measuring stick.

As a result my opinions are based on what I have used with success at Nats and regionals AND what I have seen other veteran captains use at Nats and regionals... year after year after year.

If the you guys want to suggest HK products to new recruits, help yourself. I don't care what you recommend but I will offer my opinions as well if they are in my area. I had hoped that Clark would show me just how reliable the HK products are as I am willing to re-assess and change my opinion when new information warrants it.

If you don't like spectrum, or bane-bots, or Traxxas titan motors or lithium cells or the firing boards I had made - I don't mind and I wont be personally insulted if you don't like them. You have a right to your opinion and I respect that.


Thanks

Johnny

 

Ha Funny you should ask. @NickMyers

Initially it was suggested that I get a particular servo ($25) and water-proof it. I used skotch kote and tried to follow directions but in the end I had a $50 non-working blob of plastic.

At that point I decided to just spend the $5 more and get Traxxas servos. I had heard good things in person and on the forum so I went with it. I bought two of them and used them since 2010. I still have #2 in a boat. I bought 4 more of which 2 are in convoy ships and 2 are still in the tool box.. since 2010.

Now with that said.. I am now switching to the Hitec HS-646WP and will install it in all primary ships from here forward. I will use the Traxxas in convoys and cruisers and then phase them out for Hitec in the future as they wear out. They are much higher quality, have higher torque ratings, re-buildable, and I believe a better waterproof rating. Many of the Veterans I know have been using them so I will spend a few dollars more and get them. If it fails once every 3-5 years.. it will be a bargain. And I will only keep 1 spare instead of 2 to save money.

TowerHobbies.com |Hitec HS-646WP Analog Waterproof High-Voltage Servo

Johnny

 

I don't use a watertight box, and regard them as a really good way to waste space in a ship.
I don't use special "waterproof" servos, just ordinary cheapo ones that I have sprayed with a dielectric silicone spray. I actually chop holes in the casings to let the water OUT. A squirt of alcohol and a burst of air or CO2 and they are right to go.
Sure, sometimes I will lose a servo after sitting on the bottom for 30 mins or so, its just part of the game to me. Oftentimes they come good after an overnight soaking in alcohol and a burst of air to dry them. If the pots go bad then they end up in the hack box to become continuous rotation servos at a later date.
Yes I am budget-conscious (call me cheap if it makes you feel better), it's part of my scottish heritage.
The spray I use?
Chemsearch

 

You forgot:
Ca glue
Water proofing epoxy
Deans or another type of connectors for wiring
Dog bone for the motor connection
Gears or arm to turn the rudder
Something to make the SS out of not that Clark uses ships with SS
Balsa weld wood silkspan
Interior armor hey even pop bottles cost something

That list is more than $30.
Budget $800 and get yourself some solenoids. Goes with the new tools you have to buy.

 

You make a good point and others have followed this line of thinking. Jeff L. had TONS of $10 servos laying around and he would use them, un-waterproofed in his ship. When he sank he would just replace it to be sure there was no issue with the next battle. Since had literaly dozens and dozens of servos it was not a big deal. I dont think it was always easy for him to replace the servos and I think that was part of the reason he started switching over to the HiTec servos.. it may have been more of a torque issue.. I am not sure.

There is certainly merit to the idea of buying 10 of the $7 servos and replacing them as needed. If folks are getting good life out of them I am willing to try them in convoy ships or cruisers... at least Cruisers rarely sink. The test would be how many of the $7 servos would I go through within the life-span of a HiTec servo. Would I be saving money in the end?

It is a lot of work to remove my servo so for me, I would rather spend a bit more and change less than vice/versa. That certainly doesn't mean that using the $7 servo is a bad idea but in my Baden... I don't want to change it out that often. My first thought is how can a $7 servo be 1) reliable 2) properly water-proofed 3) high torque, but I think I will try them out in a Cruiser or Convoy ship in the future.

As far as leaving your ship out in the water for a while.. it has been a long time practice to let folks get their boats during sorties. As I have a 28 Second ship.. many of my targets are disabled ships and as such I stick close to shore. Long time exposure underwater does too much damage to ships and personally I would rather you go get your ship as soon as it sinks than risk you having to miss the next sortie or battle due to a mechanical failure. Like I stated before.. its combat I am after and I want as many ships on the water as possible (Axis/Allied/Flag/No-Flag/Whatever). Seeing all the ships on the water reminds me of the pictures in WW2 of a task force steaming across the ocean.. very cool. Some of the pictures from Nats in the past remind me of historical pictures like this: http://www.uss-bennington.org/pics/phz-45-the_fleet.jpg

Thanks for putting that idea in my mind to think about.

Johnny

 

I think it was the Iona Nats that had a picture that resembled that historical photo referenced in the last post.. Anybody know for sure.. Bob?

 

I typically DO battle in chemical laden waters.. difference of environment. However like you said.. a reliable ship can handle it .... I may need more work yet !!

 

Not offended Johnny, but I do find it rather comical that at the Brouhaha you, Jeff and Bob made it a point to tell me that I was the only one (really several people) that had a working and reliable brushless boat. Yet neither asked to see what was inside or to see how it was waterproofed.

 

Actually I meant to take a look and talk about it but didn't have time ... I was patching thousands of holes. I also figured I could speak to you about it later when needed.

And same as any other products.. I want to see more than 1 or 2 folks using it with success before I change my mind.. Its already starting to happen thanks to you!!

 

Well we use the spray I mentioned pretty extensively here in Australia, and as a testimony to how effective it is, my brother took his transmitter (a futaba 6ex) for a swim off our dock with no ill effects as its boards had been sprayed about a year previously.

 

What spray do you use? Right now I use corrosion X to clean connectors then dielectric grease to pack them and protect them.

 

I will check it out.

 

I would go with kit ad it will certaintly cut down on your building time. Once you have your first ship completed you can try scratchbuilding your next project. There is a large learning curve for scratchbuidin and it takes more time to figure things out as opposed to a kit especially if you have never done this before. Poppets are still viable and reliable and will cut your cost down. Again if your hooked you will no doubt get a second ship and maybe then have thw electronic firing system. A good cruiser you can learn a lot from and get the basics of RC Cbt down.

 

Oh, I was one of those guys that said it works for you, but I don't want to practice your "witch craft" until a few more get it working for them. Your voodoo dance and sacrifice of a chicken prior to each sortie just seems a little much, but you gotta do what you gotta do.
For those that don't know, Carl does manage to pull off the whole witch-doctor look, picture of him below with his "hats for guns"

 

Note that my Erin was a very reliable boat during the two Texas events I attended in 2012. All brushless drive system too.