Here are a few ideas . 1. make it easier for people to get involved . 2. cost work on ideas to get the cost down for someone to get a ship and battle 3. treat everyone the same some clubs i wont name names treat new people like second class citizens 4. sell your old stuff letting it set on a shelf collecting dust is not helping the hobby i know you put allot of time and sweat into it but sell it to a young captain to get him going 5. when you have battles bring a extra ship and offer to let interested people take it for a test nothing like a test drive to seal the deal 6. try and make it more family oriented ,if you can get a dad and son hooked 7, advertise post flyers about events and stuff maybe start a weekly online web broadcast where you can discuss the hobby and take questions Just a few ideas if anything in them offended anyone i apologize,but from a outsiders point of view this is what i see ,a hobby that is not growing like it should be .
All valid points and most all being done already across multiple clubs and formats. The largest hurdle to get into the hobby is cost. There has been much discussion on the forums here about ways to lower cost. Some ideas was mass produced, premade small hull, or a wood laser cut kit. Gun wise, there was speculation of making a resin based breech and interruptor that can be easily molded and mass produced. The biggest problem with mass produced ships and equipment is the initial start up capital. No one wants to invest in something that will return limit profit. So at the moment, the costs of the hobby are pretty much as low as they can go and still keep the companies producing the ships and parts in business. The only way to really save money is to spend the time to construct the ship and parts at home, or possibly find a used ship which still won't be so cheap. Point 7 is an interesting idea that could help alot. In the RC aircraft world, may clubs advertise events in many of the online forums and specialty web sites. I wonder if any of us are posting events on places like RC Groups.
I would add "find a non-dismissive way to dismiss the same crazy ideas that come from the new interests almost every time they see the first battle" (things such as explosives, barbed projectiles, harpoons, etc., which seem to come up an awful lot) I would say that beyond the capital cost, from a fast gun perspective, is that the ships are not straight forward to build. the new fellow really could use a real kit with real instructions reguardless of the cost... You could make the molds for a resin based breech/interrupter quite cheaply. for fast gun and safe pressures, however, I have not found a resin that I would trust. Now if someone wants to go make a homebuilt injection molding machine, the whole game changes
I don't think its the cost in dollars, its the time/effort that really keeps most people out. Its not expensive when you compare it to a lot of other hobbies, but it is a lot more work upfront before you get to the "fun" part. Selling old stuff is fine if you dont mind taking a big hit on it(when you could just reuse the parts in another ship), ships depreciate at a pretty darn high rate, either that or they cost even more to buy than building one yourself. Plus its hard to tell if you're buying a used ship in good condition or someone's lemon, and then when parts start failing (they will) its often not easy to fix something that you don't know how it works, people get frustrated and just don't bother. Now of course this wouldn't be the case all the time but there have been problems with it in the past. Buying a used ship can get you in easy but be sure to go over it well and learn how it works before you buy it. As an outsider how much do you think people would be willing to spend on a ready to run ship? $250? $500? $1000? More? Whats realistic? Im not sure what you've experienced but I haven't seen much of your #3 so that may be more on who you battle with. Your #5 is a great way to keep people interested while they build or get them hooked to start with but at some point they still have to buckle down and build a ship. A number of clubs/people do this currently and it works decently. As for #6, its already pretty family oriented there are a lot of Father/Son groups in the hobby, but you're right if you can get more that is twice the battlers per "recruit". #7 is where we generally lack, we've been getting better as a hobby but the low numbers are partly related to the number of people that know about the hobby. Ads in hobby shops or maybe on hobby websites might help raise our numbers.
Greg, you think injection molding breeches and interrupters would be as good as the brass fittings we use now?
spending i dont know i just spent 500 on new hockey pads maybe getting people out to events and once they see. then if they could even sail a ship . once they do that they will be hooked and the cost will not be the issue. but for someone to put out 4 or 5 hundred without ever being onthe water is tough .
Many clubs maintain a loaner boat to let people try their luck. We've had several people come by battles, but they're out walking with the GF or the kids, so they don't stop to take part beyond watching for a while.
I think Tug's "Cheapest Point of Entry" project has the makings for a good "How to Do It" manual for beginners. The main drawback is that a French Armored Cruiser may not have the mass appeal (philistines!) of a Second World War vessel. The ideal choice would be something combative for all formats. I don't think the Edgar Quinet would have much appeal in a Big Gun environment. Still as that is not my chosen format I am merely guessing.
the CPOE school boat is on course to come in under $200 for an armed fast gun warship. Not as sexay as some WW2 ships, indeed, but I COULD do a PE or allied 2.5 to 3 unit cruiser for the same price... As could anyone so inclined to, following the steps I'm laying out in the class. I am working towards getting my hard drive transferred to an accessable form on my website, but that'll likely happen after I get a few boats built and sold. I jsut got a commission to do a Gangut, so I'm doing three of them. The Moose will wait a little
Cool I have always wanted to see some one do a Gangut. A Prinz Eugen or Blucher would be dead sexy. Love the look of that ship.
they could easily be injection molded... I've machined a fair number of breeches from plastic and done the analysis on said plastic, it is amply strong for those purposes with a proper design.
Indeed, the Edgar Quinet falls under the heading "mostly harmless" in Big Gun. I wish that Emile Bertin CAD project had come to fruition. That ship would have been competitive in both formats.
Greg- What kind of plastic are you using? Have you had any problems with BBs denting the top of the elbow like they tend to do with the brass fittings? thanks
I usually use acetal or noryl or nylon 6/6. with the plastic being between 10-15% the density of brass you can make the part quite beefy without being heavier than the brass ones. that being said, I armor them by making the turret fit tightly to them as protection (although if one went for minimum material usage, you could do the same with some foam tape or by dipping it in. an injection molded part could take advantage of many a advanced fiber filled plastic such as some of the fiber filled polycarbonates that are extremely impact resistant that you can't really use when machining (when you cut the long fibers, you kinda defeat the purpose of the fiber fill, and fiber filled plastics machine terribly). with any decent fiber filled plastic, you can get usable strength equivalent to dead soft brass. The polycarbonates may even take impacts better, if there is sufficient beef there
I looked at several ships for the CPOE, but Edgar Q looked prettier than Emile B, and (I think, beena while) had better gun options for fast gun, which is most of my battling at the moment. A little format bias on my part, but then it's my money and time lol. Maybe I'll make one of my later classes more broad in scope, although the second class has already been promised to be a predread, which is not a great beginner ship in Big Gun. If some Big Gun boys (or girls, if there are any) can send me some suggestions on what they'd like a class on (hull-building wise), I was going to do the 3rd class on a battleship. I have plans for SoDak, KGV, NC, MissouriVanguard, and a few more. Only the KGV, NC, an the Mighty Mo plans are open-source, though.
King George V...I am guessing you mean the second class of that name would be my choice. Would not Richelieu also be open source? Or does is rather odd lay out take it from consideration?
No, it's not out of contention, I'm at work and didn't think of it Might be easier for a new battler to run... Or Dunkerque, for that matter...
The Richelieu is a mean Big Gun ship with it's 2 x 4 cannons up front. It's also a good treaty ship due to it's speed and dual sidemounts. In fast gun, the Richey isn't so good due to lack of turning compared to twin rudder ships and comparable armaments. I think the French Dreadnaught, Bretange, might be a good all around ship for fast and big gun. It's large enough to fit everything into it, small enough to transport easily, and should turn well in any format (even with the single rudder). A bonus is the free original builder's plans on the web that someone can download, clean up, and resize to scale size.
That's my thinking, Mike... If I'm going to teach a class, it'd be nice for the plans to be open-source and therefore free to prospective 'students'. Hence, doing Edgar Quinet for the first one. I really wish our Navy would get with it like the French have. Bretagne would be good, except for the 20kt speed. Not so bad in fast gun, but very slow in big gun. @ J - I wish the Dunk was just a few feet longer... then she could mount two sidemounts on a given side; with rotates, she'd be really interesting that way! I'll worry about SB-301 after I finish SB-101 and get into SB-201: Scratchbuilding a fiberglass SMS Pommern.
