The IJN CVLs were too small for the Myrt recon planes...providing them with a recon element would degrade their combat capabilities too much. Here is a listing for the three IJN CVLs at Philippine Sea in June 1944 which is probably as close to a realistic airgroup as Ibuki would have ever carried. Her IDEAL airgroup would have been 9 Aichi B7A attack planes (combination torpedo planes/divebombers) and 21 A6M5 fighters. Here are the historical 1944 CVL airgroups: (source is http://www.navweaps.com/index_oob/OOB_WWII_Pacific/OOB_WWII_Phillipine_Sea.htm ) 3rd Carrier Squadron Rear Admiral Obayashi CVL Chitose (F) 21 - A6M5b, 3 - B6N, 6 - B5N (Air Group 653) CVL Chiyoda 21 - A6M5b, 3 - B6N, 6 - B5N (Air Group 653) CVL Zuiho 21 - A6M5b, 3 - B6N, 6 - B5N (Air Group 653) As for the colors, you may find something here: http://www.j-aircraft.com/ I can't promise it has what you're looking for, but it probably does.
Thanks Mike, Your info and link were very helpful. It seems late war naval Zeros were painted dark green on the upper surfaces and gray or blue-gray on the lower, depending on which company built them. The greens used by those Nikijima and Mitsubishi were slightly different too. It's likely that most naval aircraft had similar paint schemes. The mix of B5N2 Kate and B6N2 Jill torpedo bombers on those 1944 CVLs is interesting. An article I found said that in 1944-1945 B5N2s on carriers were usually replaced by B6N2s and consigned to land bases. I'll have to order the earlier Zero models because the A6M5 had reverted to rounded wingtips from the angular ones on the A6M3 Type 32 that I'd planned to order. I like your suggestion for an optimal airgroup with 1944's B7A2 Grace successor to the B6N2 Jill. By coincidence I found prepainted 1/144 scale models of the Grace and the Jill in the green colour scheme tonight. Modelling Ibuki as completed implies the war went somewhat better for Japan and defeat was delayed. Using the A7M2 Reppu carrier fighter instead of the Zero would fit with that concept, though only one Reppu made it off the production line before the war ended. (Prepainted 1/144 Reppus are available in green too!) The C6N1 Myrt is a nice looking plane and available in the green scheme. Too bad it wouldn't have used on Ibuki. Given that there were very few operational Japanese carriers left by late 1944 the few new ones that might have been commissioned would probably have received the newest aircraft. I think this would justify modelling the Ibuki with a mix of B7A2 and B6N2 torpedo bombers and Zero and Reppu fighters, or just B7A2s and Reppus. I think I'll order some now! Bob
I cannot get onto the sweet model site at http://www.sweetaviationmodels.com/ (by the way do NOT search for "Sweet Model" on Google you WILL get the wrong ones....) I keep getting a time out error (like it is too busy) is there another address I should use to get into their site? Thanks []
Hi Bryan, I was just on the site. Do a search for Hobby Link Japan and then click on the HJL link. That'll get you on the home page where you'll need to click on Aircraft in the top row of the page (red section). That will open on the page with the Search function on the left. Put in the entries I emailed you and you'll be on the page with the flight deck kits. If you prefer prepainted aircraft they're almost twice as expensive but will save a lot of time and look great. 1/144 Jill and Grace torpedo bombers by CafeReo are available from various on-line and ebay stores. CafeReo also makes the Reppu carrier fighter that was developed too late to see action (I'm getting a few for Ibuki) and Bandai makes a green Myrt recon plane. The only prepainted Zeros I've found are by Bandai and Takawa. Bandai's are better looking models but are in the early war overall gray colour scheme. Takawa's aren't as nice and come in weathered paint jobs, none of which are the plain dark green. I bought 3 B7A2 Grace kits last night from the UK and will order some Reppus today from Hong Kong. They're mainly for display and non-combat running. In competiton I'll probably have one single plane aboard safely out of the way on a partly lowered elevator. Re the Ibuki herself, the bow and stern sections of the hull have been reinforced with another layer of matt. Kim is at an acting workshop for most of the weekend so I'll be able finish reinforcing the hull sides and bottom amidships and make the two short decks. The bridge and funnel won't be added until late Dec/early Jan. Bob Bob
Ibuki's aircraft and flight deck kits have been ordered from the UK, Hong Kong and Japan. There will be 9 planes on deck when the model is cruising instead of battling, though the full compliment would have been 27. This will repesent the tail end of an attack launch with 3 B7A2 Grace and 3 B5N2 Jill torpedo bombers and 3 A7M2 Reppu fighters. The models are prepainted in 1944-1945 schemes. I ordered the elevator and deck extension kits made by Sweet in Japan. I decided to make the planked area longer, due to Japan's shortage of steel in 1945. The deck sections will have to be tapered forward, then have styrene added to the edges to represent the steel deck around the planked area. A few inches at the ends of the flight deck will be represented as steel and made from styrene. The styrene construction will allow scale bracing to be added under the flight deck edges and at the overhanging ends. Reinforcement of the Mogami hull was completed yesterday. There are now 2 layers of matt on the bottom, 3 on the sides down to the bottom, and 4 layers from the original deck edge to the waterline. I needed that extra thickness for my armor mounting system, which you'll see in a few weeks. It also make makes for strong ribs above the waterline where they're more vulnerable to BB damage. There's a problem with the quarterdeck. The scale position of a pair of the 1/4" square colums that support the flight deck is right over the rudders, where I wanted to put the rudder access hatch. If there's a rudder linkage problem or the set screws on the tiller arms loosen I'll need to get at them and usually do it through a deck hatch. I'll install fiberglass deck sections fore and aft of the rudders leaving a 1 1/2" wide gap above them, then shape a deck section from 1/8" thick styrene to fit tightly between the hull sides and fiberglass deck sections. I'll glue the flight deck supports to the styrene deck section and make the aft extension of he flight deck removable, When the flightdeck is removed it's supports and the strenen deck section can be rmoved to access the rudders. The hangar sides have been marked to show the locations of the funnel and the large sponson that supports the island. The sponson will be made later in a temporary basswood mold attached to the hull side. Bob
I like your idea of adding Reppus to the ship as opposed to Zeroes. Had the war drug out a little while longer there's no reason to believe she wouldn't have carried the aircraft.
I have ordered my 2 lift sections and I have also ordered 5 extension sections and some aircraft so I should be set as well for deck, although I will be later in the launch and (I will have less aircraft on deck than you will) think I can mout one just at flight point near end of deck on some wire, a little foam inside them will make them more resilient to bbs and make them float too. []
What planes did you order Bryan? I like your idea of having one taking off. If you drill out one of the deck's aircraft tie-down locations (see 1/144 Soryu build on-line - I mistakenly reported it as Hiryu) the plane can be mounted on piano wire stuck in the hole. It shouldn't be very far off the deck so the wire won't be easily noticed. I'm ordering a pair of Robbe #1481 rudder kits and will reduce each nylon blade to 1.5 square inches in area by trimming off part of the lower section. I've used these kits for most of my models. I'm also ordering a pair of custom made prop shafts with 4mm thread in 1/4" wide stuffing tubes 9.25" long from Lowell Briggs Hobbies here in NS. A Palmer regulator for 36 gm capsules with capsule attached fits nicely in the recess over the stern skeg between the prop shaft locations. Until I get the rudders and shafts I'll work on the bow area, installing the forecastle deck and a vertical sheet of aluminum in the narrow bow to prevent BB's going through both sides of the hull. With that done I can detail the bow area, adding the 4 x 1/4" square supports for the flight deck, bollards, anchor winches, w/t doors and hatches, superstructure portholes, hawse pipes, etc. When the rudders, shafts and quarterdeck are installed the aft end will get similar detailing plus 4 ships boats (probably Termite Armour launches). Bob
I went with the later model Zero's so she would not look exactly like yours and reasoned it was what they had left over to fit her out with as they were tight on supplies by the time she would have been launched, yes SS wire painted flat-black will be how it is supported. Thanks for the rudder info. []
Confirmation was received today that the 2 Sweet 1/144 Japanese aircraft carrier deck kits (each containing 1 elevator and 1 deck extension kit) and 5 additional deck extension kits were being shipped from Japan. Six torpedo bombers and 3 fighters are on the way from Hong Kong and the UK. All of the kits should be here by early January so I'll take a break from hull work and build the flight deck, aircraft and the island, which is larger than those on the Japanese fleet carriers for some reason. I'll be away for a week so no more work will be done on Ibuki until the 29th. Happy holidays everyone! Bob
The 3 'Grace' and 3 'Jill' torpedo bomber kits arrived from the UK yesterday and were assembled today. They're nicely detailed and prepainted kits made by CafeReo in Japan. The 3 Reppu fighter kits made by F Toys (also prepainted) and the aircraft carrier deck and elevator kits by Sweet should arrive this week. I've been unable to contact Lowell Briggs so have no rudder kits or prop shafts yet. Until I get them I'll make the fiberglass forecastle deck and start detailing the hangar/superstructure. Bob
I got a good look at the Ibuki today at Bob's place and it's going to be one sweet looking carrier. Bob was in the process of assembling the aircraft when I arrived and they are very nice looking. Although I'm still drooling over the HMS Furious hull he showed me.
I'll post more photos of the Ibuki after the forecastle deck is installed. All that's new at the moment are the aircraft models. I'll take some photos of them on the plan's flight deck when all are assembled. BP
I received a nice shipment from Japan as well last week decks, elevators and zeros, Am eagerly following Bobs progress!
Hi Bryan, How thick are the flight deck components? I expect my order of deck and elevator kits to arrive this week. The 3 Reppu fighters arrived from Hong Kong today and have been assembled so there are 9 aircraft ready to display on the flight deck. Placing them on the plan suggests only a dozen planes could be mustered on Ibuki's deck at a time. Any more would have given a take off run of less than 420'. Tonight's work on the hull was filling gelcoat defects on the hangar sides and the seams between hangar and hull with more gelcoat that will be sanded smooth when cured. With the hangar fine sanded I can start detailing it. I covered the forecastle with 1/32" balsa and gelcoated the underside. Tomorrow the forecastle deck will get another coat of gelcoat, followed by fiberglass matt and resin on Thursday. I should be able to detail the front of the superstructure/hangar and the forecastle deck within a week. The forecastle deck will have the 4 pillars that support the flight deck overhang, plus anchor handling gear, bollards and fairleads. Bob
Thanks ever so much for all your work and research in all this Bob, it is fascinating and eye-opening at the same time and just goes to show how hard it is to get any really good information and to keep checking sources, excellent work! []
It is fascinating to see how difficult it really is to get good information on our boats when we try to make them as good a representation as we possibly can. I for one am really enjoying following the build along, like a voyeur looking over your shoulder, thanks for making this much detail available to all of us who will be building one of these in the future. []
There isn't much information on the Ibuki, which was only 85% complete, so the planned configuration is open to conjecture. There are a couple of drawings on-line and 2 photos of a scratchbuilt 1/700 model. All differ considerably in details like hangar length, length of flight deck overhangs fore and aft and flight deck outline. I used the cross-sections from the book on WWII Japanese cruisers to determine the actual length of the hangar, which was longer than in the on-line drawings or the scratchbuilt model. I've found only 5 photos, 4 of the incomplete ship at anchor in Kure and another of it alongside a dock. One is from a fair distance off the starboard bow and doesn't show much detail. There's a broadside port view, also from a distance with details obscured by shadows. Two much closer shots are off the port bow and were taken from an American LCI. Those are more useful with one providing details of multiple ventilator trunks on the port side of the hangar plus the steel beams used to support the AA gun galleries. I'd assumed those supports were tubular but they were box shaped in cross-section with an angled edge downward rather than a flat side. They're quite long and emerge from the hull at a steep angle. I'll probably use box-section styrene to represent them, telescoping two sizes for greater thickness and strength. (The flight decks supports will be made from 1/4" square styrene with the next two sizes telescoped into them, making the combined thickness 2.5-3.0 mm.) The shot of the ship at dockside is from fine on the starboard bow and shows the protrusion of the island support from the hull side, and some vague details of the island. Some of the AA gun galleries and other side platforms appear of identical design to those on the Amagi so I'll buy a 1/700 Aoshima model of that ship and scale up the components. Looking at photos of contemporary late war IJN carriers it seems likely that there would have been an elevated walkway under the flight deck leading to MG positions at the bow, and possibly a similar arrangement on the quarterdeck. I plan to make this model quite detailed. With lower rates of fire in Treaty combat (and presumably more accuracy) I don't expect as much superstructure damage. Bob
Here's the first of several photos of WWII Japanese carrier based aircraft in 1/144 scale. All are prepainted kits sold in Japan as trading/collecting kits with a piece of candy in the box. The first photo shows a C6N1 Saiun recon plane, one of the fastest propellor driven aircraft in the Pacific theatre, sitting on the forward elevator on the Ibuki's deck plan. The Allied name for it was the Myrt.
The Saiun recon plane model was made by Bandai. The rest of the models are by CafeReo, another Japanese company. This photo shows 3 B6N2 Tenzan (Heavenly Mountain) torpedo bombers, known to the Allies as the Jill. This is model #11, one of 3 colour variants of the Jill model, differing from #12 in having no white circle around the red sun on the fuselage side.
