IJN Mutsu - The Beast from the East

Discussion in 'Warship Builds' started by McSpuds, Nov 19, 2011.

  1. McSpuds

    McSpuds Vendor

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    Hello everybody. I am new to the site but I do drop in from time to time for a visit.
    Seeing Ron's Nagato build today pushed me to post my build here since I don't have a "Local" club.
    I hope you all don't mind me posting here. If so just let me know and I wll remove it.
    The build you are going to see here started back in 2004 when I was stationed in Florida. I purchased the hull in 2004 in prep for the 2004 or 2005 NATS was going to be held in Florida. So I have One possibly two building seasons to get her done and ready.
    I wanted to take my time with her the same way I did with my QE that took Rookie of the year in the IRCWCC at Hagerstown. (what a nice pond). I learned early that the more time you spend in the garage or wood shop tinkering, the more time you will spend on the water and the less time you will spend on the table watching others battle! My IRCWCC NATS in 2003 I spent NO down time at all other than to reload. I had a nice set of Charleys guns that (I swear on a bible) did not have to be re-tweaked one time the entire week!
    For you rookies out there.... The bottom lime was the more I thought out things, used the simple way of things, and the time spent doing it right in the shop will pay off on the water. Making things complicated, taking shortcuts, ect.. will only end up sending you back to that table under that canopy. At least you will have time to take some nice photos of the battle :woot:
    Well anyway, the build started in the fall of 2004 and proceeded fine till I was deployed. That ended that for a time. I didn't even get to catch the NATS at Florida... what a disappointment, that pond was 5 minutes from my house!
    The Mutsu got put on the shelf and didn't get worked on till late 2007. I tinkered a little but funds where tight since we where stationed here in Kentucky now and had two house payments.. ouchy... The "Secretary of the Navy" (My Wife) had cut the naval budget to pre WW1 levels....
    I retired back in 2008 from the army but building was still on hold because now I was having serious issues with my left side, arm, Back and neck do to service injury. I was headed for surgery. After 2 surgeries and finally some relief from pain I am now getting back into the build and I am shooting for the 2012 NATS in NC next year.

    I know this was long, but I wanted to give the story on why it is taking me 8 years to build my Mutsu. So here we go to catch you up I have the build recorded from start to where I am now.
    I hope you enjoy. If you see anything I can change for improvement, please let me know.

    *********************************************************
    Ship Name: IJN Mutsu
    Ship Class: Nagato(B)
    Hull & Super Manufacturer: BattlesConnection
    Fast Gun Specs
    Length: 738' Beam: 114
    Max Model Weight: 35.31 lbs
    Class: 6
    Units: 6.0
    Speed: 24

    *********************************************************
    2004 -
    Marked the windows out with tape in prep for cutting them out with my Dremel Tool. The stringers where a pain to lay out but she will look nice with her bulges....
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    I then drill holes in all the corners. This keeps the ribs from cracking later on as the radius in the corners will provide added strength. All you so is stop your cut as you hit the holes...
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    Another shot showing how many windows will be cut out. One more thing to put in the "Why you shouldn't build big" book! :cool:
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    Well, the windows are cut out. Took a trip back to Home Depot as I burned up the 1st Dremel by letting glass build up in the drill. I now blow that out constantly when cutting glass. Another tip!! Wear as much clothing as you can, tape up your shirt lines, use gloves, Eye Protection, and most important a respirator..... This stuff can be mean to the lungs.
    Take a show afterwards, yes I know you are thinking "hey stupid we all do". Take a COLD one! A warm shower will open up your skin pores and the glass will set in there..... using cold water will close the pores and help getting off the itch!
    [​IMG]

    Here she lies in my shop in Merritt Island, FL All cut and washed up.
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    When getting ready for my sub-weather decking, I always set in some wood to keep the Beam width I want. The fiber ships always tend to bend inwards a lot! Be sure to take away the thickness or your skin if the skin is at the weather deck! As per Fast gun rules you only have 1/8th inch wiggle room there.
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    Hull is traced on the wood..... I then take a compass and make inside the lines the thickness of the hull and use the new lines to cut on.
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    Here is the pre fitting of the subdeck before cutting out the access holes. I always spend a lot of time here sanding this to fit perfectly. Saves trouble later on. Hint: Be sure to clearly mark up and down side as sometimes if the deck is flipped, the contours will not be the same.

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    Here is a couple of shots with all my access holes cut out. Make sure your batteries will fit in place at this point in the build or it will be a mess to fix.... been there done that...o_O
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    The Mutsu is so sexy! even at this stage....
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    ..and the gluing of the deck..... gloves, gloves, gloves.. I wear 4 or 5 pair at the same time when using resin or fiberglass resins. That way if I get a little messy I can just pull off a outer pair. Just like NASCAR cleaning a window these days...
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    Dont even ask, dont say nothing... LOL I have never got the cutting in of the darn prop shafts. I always make a mess and end up fiber glassing them in. uugh a pain here. Somebody help me here with this on my next ship build....

    [​IMG]

    I do a few things neat though with the stuffing tubes and the rudders. On the stuffing tubes I drill a hole in the top and solder a riser tube that is "ABOVE" the water line. Then take another small piece, solder a cap on it to make a endcap for it..... This gives me a simple way to lube the shafts every battle..... without taking the props off!
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    The rudders on the Mutsu have a inward angle. To insure they aligned behind the props and at the correct angle, I made this little jig. It will slide into the prop shaft and then I slip the rudder post housing shaft down through the hole in the hull and into the jig...
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    Here you see how they allign them selves. I then glass in the rudder housing posts.
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    Then just cut excess post and pull off the jig for later use...
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    Install rudders
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    Install rudders.. and props.. look at that clearance!:rolleyes:
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    and tada.... a perfect angle on the rudders inlign with the props too...
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    2007

    A little break there. Something called a war got in the way! This is now in Kentucky at my smaller garage.. ughhh

    Anyway I decided on a new gun layout for the Mutsu. Typically they use twin sterns, a haymaker and two front broadsides. UGGHHHHH
    I like to punch hard and fast. My QE proved that my style of gun set up would be just fine. I LIKE QUAD STERNS!
    So on my Mutsu we decided to go with QUAD STERNS, and a Rotate in Bruno to keep off the flies! :woot:
    This is my first design.(It has since been replaced due to room limitations in the bow.
    The coil gun sits in a cradle via a rod welded onto the magazine. A link is welded onto the selector cap for elevate linkage.
    It all sits in this cradle. The cradle is placed onto a sprocket and tube that is linked by chain to a sail servo for traverse.
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    Looking down into Bruno
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    Here is the setup placed and working great!
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    Here you see the mini servo for elevation
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    On to the QUADS:laugh::cool:;):D:p
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    WHY ONLY USE ONE! WHEN FOUR WILL FIT!
    FEEL THE PAIN........... REMEMBER, THIS IS FAST GUN, THOSE SHOT ARE POURING OUT OF THOSE FOUR GUNS VERY VERY VERY FAST....:woot::whistling:
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    I'M TOO SEXY FOR MY HULL....
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    Oh and look at that down angle :blink: with my rotate.
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    So Sexy
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    The quad mags coming out and around my bilge pump. Notice the auto switch on it..
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    Testing barral lengths...
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    I just cant get over that down angle..
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    Here is the new rotate set up. I dumped the carriage and placed a collender inside the barbet. Attached the gun via a rod to the collender and then a small spring to keep the gun at max depression. No elevate/depress servo needed as when the gun traverses over Anton it rides over the rounded style turret just nice and then goes right back down to max dpression. I more system to not worry about...
    [​IMG]

    The collender fits into Bruno casement and has linkages on the bottom edges for a servo to rotate left / right. I will post better shots later as this is prime...
    [​IMG]

    My bilge pump with auto switch. Never had a fail! It is out of my QE. I make most all of my system in a module style so they can be removed and switched very easy between ships. Saves on money and make sthis easy to use.
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    My speed controll is a RC220 with resin to protect it from water.....
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    Never leave the house without my Deans!
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    A very small control bos. Houses my new digital receiver, 2 rc200 switches for my guns. Thats all... very compact for a class 6!
    Notice the wiring for modular systems...
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    The quad mounts... barrels slip right in.
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    2011 In our new house, and my new shop. AND RETIRED! LOL
    Here is my new motoer drives from BC
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    Boat is stripped and ready to re-wire systems, then on to the dreaded super...
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    So sexy...
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    More to come soon folks, subscribe if interested. I also have a webite I use for my boats and ships at mcspuds.net
     
  2. moose421

    moose421 Member

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    RE: IJN Mutsu 7yr build project Your boat is looking good. One question though. What rule set are you plan on battling in? I believe that your B gun might be illegal in MWC. The problem that I see is that your mag cap is protruding though the roof of the turret. If I am remembering right only the barrel may exit and must exit though the face of the turret.

    If I am wrong please someone correct me.

    Other than that looks good and keep it up.

    Kim
     
  3. McSpuds

    McSpuds Vendor

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    RE: IJN Mutsu 7yr build project
    Your correct and that has already been fixed. But thanks for the find!

    Here is the new gun and you can see the mag cap difference in height.

    [​IMG]
     
  4. jch72

    jch72 Active Member

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    RE: IJN Mutsu 7yr build project Nice... Another Nagato class.

    For the Mutsu you know having all 8 guns present isn't illegal in fast gun, just unpinning more than 5 of them during battle, or using two side mounts in the same turret, or more than three side mounts total. In the ircwcc the third sidemount is required to rotate, in the mwc it is not. The extra cannonage gives a little flexibility when one gun goes bad. With the lighter batteries available now you won't have a weight problem.

    You should take a look at the current stringer rules in mwci, the ircwcc adopted the same rules this year. Looks like you cut it out using the new rules but the center section of the casemates is ruled as penetrable now. Just another 30 or so windows to cover.

    Ron Hunt
     
  5. McSpuds

    McSpuds Vendor

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    RE: IJN Mutsu 7yr build project
    I will have to go read the rules set again. I remember the rule being something like if the casement was a certain distance back from the edge of the deck it did not have to be cut.

    No big problem to fix, just a few more of the ten thousand the Mut has already :rolleyes:

    I am interested in these new batteries you are talking about... I will have to go search for them... I still use 14 amp hr 6 vlt gels.
     
  6. jch72

    jch72 Active Member

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    RE: IJN Mutsu 7yr build project The revised casemate rule defines the edge of the deck as the gunwale, which on the bulged Nagato class is the inside edge of the casemate deck. This means the solid casemate area begins at the area between the two aft casemate guns. Also the casemate deck counts as a stringer, so you have to cut the deck rim down to 1/4" above the area where the armor belt and casemate deck are both present.

    The batteries are LiFePO4, and are very light weight. Look on the first page of my build thread to see what I used. The hobby seems to be transitioning to these cells rather quickly, they offer a higher power to weight ratio, lower voltage sag under load, higher usable capacity, and quick recharge rate when compared to gel cells. I recharge mine in the boat between battles so only had to purchase one set per ship. Your gel cells are probably getting old anyway. 8^)

    Ron Hunt
     
  7. McSpuds

    McSpuds Vendor

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    RE: IJN Mutsu 7yr build project
    From the way I read the rules at MWC, any casement that is beyound 1/2" from the weatherdeck edge does not need to be penetrable
    I still may be reading wrong here. Not sure now as these rules have never been clear...

    [​IMG]
     
  8. jch72

    jch72 Active Member

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    RE: IJN Mutsu 7yr build project
    Nope, that is not the weatherdeck. The weatherdeck is the topmost deck exposed to the weather at the bow of the ship. You are actually measuring from the outside edge of the bulge. The gunwhale is near the inside edge of the bulge, and is what the 1/2" inset is measured from.
    The following are pasted from the mwci rules at http://www.mwci.org/rules.shtml ; the diagrams are there, and include some specific to the Nagato class, which is the second most confusing ship to cut windows in. The most confusing is the Warspite.
    3. The following are defined as:
    a) Weather Deck: The uppermost deck exposed to the weather that has the forward most gun of the highest caliber mounted on the ship. On a ship without guns, it is the uppermost deck exposed to the weather at the bow of the ship. The weather deck may be no more than 3/8" thick. There may be only one weather deck at any given section along the hull. In the case of aircraft carriers, the hanger deck is considered the weather deck.
    b) Gunwale: The edge of the deck that the gun in question is sitting on. i.e. The gunwale for the casemate guns is the edge of the deck that the casemate guns are sitting on. The top or side of a bulge is not the gunwale. The following diagrams are an example of a Nagato Class battleship in the bulged and not bulged version and a general example of gunwales.

    (Picture didn't transfer, see http://www.mwci.org/rules.shtml)

    c) Deck Step: The point on a ship where the weather deck is allowed to step down to the next lower deck. A “deck step” can occur for two reasons:
    1) When the weather deck of the ship continues but moves inwards from the next lower deck’s gunwale more than ½” and does not at any point come back to ½” or less from that gunwale with respect to viewing a ship from bow to stern.
    2) The weather deck ceases, but there are lower decks that continue with respect to viewing a ship from bow to stern.
    If the inset that leads to the step deck does not incorporate any casemates between where it begins and where it goes >1/2" inset, then the step may move to the beginning of the inset rather than at the >1/2" mark.
    d) Casemate: An armored enclosure for guns on a warship. This consists of the cupola and armored areas surrounding the cupola on the same deck.
    e) Cupola: The armored housing where a casemate gun is mounted.
    f) Deck Rim: The uppermost outer edge of the weather deck.
    g) Casemate Deck: The deck that casemate guns are sitting on.

    7. A stringer shall be defined as any solid material that hull skin is attached to that forms the shape of the hull and is not classed as a rib.
    a) No stringers shall be used unless the shape of the hull dictates. Hull features that dictate the use of a stringer are: bulges, casement guns, knuckles, or armor belts. The stringer may not extend more than one rib beyond where that hull feature is prominent.
    b) The surface of the stringer which is against the penetrable area of the hull skin shall be no thicker than 1/8" material but may be any width.
    c) The total vertical hard area cannot exceed ½” between any two ribs in the penetrable area of the hull. i.e. A ship with both a casemate deck and a defined armor bulge or belt may use two stringers provided that the weather deck is no more than ¼” so that the combined vertical hard area between the ribs is no more than ½”.
    d) Appendix A shall contain examples of classes and their maximum deck and stringer hard area. In cases where there are questions, the drawing shall be final.

    10. On ships which have casemate mounted cannons, the cupolas may be constructed of impenetrable material. A 1/8" wide strip on each side of the cupola may also be made impenetrable. If the flat area between cupolas is inset more than 1/2" from the edge of the gunwale the entire casemate (cupolas and all flat areas inset greater than 1/2") may be made impenetrable.
    a) Measurement of the inset of casemates is determined by scale plans, not actual built measurements. In the case of a discrepancy between plans, the plans in question should be submitted to the Board of Directors and the Casemate Committee for review and a final decision.This is to keep captains from modifying the location of casemates to allow making the casemates hard.


    It definately takes some rereading and reference to the diagrams on the webpage at http://www.mwci.org/rules.shtml and your plans to completely understand, but overall it is much clearer and easier to consistently apply than the older rules because of the definitions. Also check out appendix A at the end of the rules about 3/4 down the webpage, it includes a diagram for the Nagato class.

    Hope this helps clear up any confusion I may have caused you. :confused:

    Ron Hunt
     
  9. McSpuds

    McSpuds Vendor

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    RE: IJN Mutsu 7yr build project
    Looks like somebody was mad and made a simple rule into a very complicated one.. Headed for the dremel.
     
  10. jch72

    jch72 Active Member

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    RE: IJN Mutsu 7yr build project The problem with the simple rule was that everyone applied it differently. Technically under the old rule you would lose your armor belt stringer underneath the casemates because the casemate deck would count as your 1 allowed stringer, making the Mutsu a pita to sheet. You would find ships with two stringers, or a 3/8" thick casemate deck, or other weirdness, and the old rule was unclear enough that people would argue the point. So the mwc made a committee a couple of years ago to revise the rule. The ircwcc agreed the mwc rule was better than what was in place and that it was desirable to keep fast gun construction rules the same so they adopted it this year. Sorry if it causes you to have to revise your windows a bit, but at least our hulls will end up about the same as far as penetrable area. Personally I think anything in between two casemates that face the same direction should be hard area. It's kind of hard to shoot or patch the penetrable area there because the casemate barrel is in the way.

    Ron Hunt
     
  11. McSpuds

    McSpuds Vendor

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    RE: IJN Mutsu 7yr build project
    I think the only thing I need to do is cut out the casements and thin the deck line there to 1/8"

    The Nagato is so dificult to cut windows....
     
  12. McSpuds

    McSpuds Vendor

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    RE: IJN Mutsu 7yr build project
    found it, darn I hate dremels
     
  13. McSpuds

    McSpuds Vendor

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    RE: IJN Mutsu 7yr build project
    Here is the wiring diagram I am using in the Mutt. I will be running with a RC220 for Speed Control, two RC200 Switches for the quad stern guns and the rotate gun in Bruno. I have a autosensor on my bilge pump. I also show the 4 test switches for the quads. I did not add the rudder servo or the Bruno traverse Servo as they are just simple leads to the servo. I will be adding an additional test switch for the rotate soon as I am disabled and it is hard to hold aradion transmitter and test the guns at the waters edge. Putting a test button in for the bow only makes sense so I dont have to juggle with the transmitter.

    Click here for a full image: mcspuds.net/pics/howto/mutsu-wiring.png

    [​IMG]
     
  14. McSpuds

    McSpuds Vendor

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    RE: IJN Mutsu 7yr build project
    I have the preliminary rotate working on the Bruno Turret. All seams to be good. I do need to change the linkages some because right now they are rather difficult to adjust.

    Once I have it tested with live rounds I will go ahead and put some stock on the lathe and cut a nice prototype.

    The gun has no elevation servo, it uses gravity and the rounded shape of the Mutsu's Anton turret to lift the gun over the turret and there is a spring that keeps the gun at max depression. The spring also keeps the gun from traveling up as it fires..

    I need to do some fine tuning and relocate the gun just a little to be scale with where the gun actually is in the turret.

    So far though it is running as planned, I am very happy with it.


    Video one www.youtube.com/watch

    Video two www.youtube.com/watch
     
  15. mike5334

    mike5334 Well-Known Member

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    RE: IJN Mutsu 7yr build project Nicely done. I was thinking of the same sort of arrangement to get the barrels to lift over the bow. Glad to hear that it works. :)
     
  16. jch72

    jch72 Active Member

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    RE: IJN Mutsu 7yr build project Rotates are fun. Ha! There are so few working ones in fast gun that the enemy doesn't expect it. I watched Gerald empty a magazine into somebody at the brouhaha and they didn't figure out where all the BBs were coming from until he was done.

    Ron Hunt
     
  17. McSpuds

    McSpuds Vendor

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    RE: IJN Mutsu 7yr build project
    New captain in the shop... Learning to sand..:p

    [​IMG]
     
  18. thegeek

    thegeek Well-Known Member

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    RE: IJN Mutsu 7yr build project Dust Mask is missing, little lungs have to go a long way into the future.
     
  19. McSpuds

    McSpuds Vendor

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    RE: IJN Mutsu 7yr build project
    Yep, just baught him some this morning at Home Depot...
     
  20. jch72

    jch72 Active Member

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    RE: IJN Mutsu 7yr build project That's really cool. What hull is he working on? My boy has a few years to go before he can help me in the shop. I hope he gets over his airplane fixation by then.

    Ron Hunt