Interested in the hobby

Discussion in 'Great Lakes Attack Squadron (GLAS)' started by aleMI, Mar 14, 2017.

  1. aleMI

    aleMI Active Member

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    Hello all,
    Sorry, another newbie thread here.
    I'd like to start by saying I've always been interested in this hobby since I saw a swampworks ad when I was 13 back in 2005, but never got into it due to the money needed and parents unwilling to participate at the time. I figure now I've waited long enough, and would like to get started in this hobby. In terms of RC experience I can fly R/C airplanes, and have a limited building ability, but zero experience with boats and cannons. I live in Detroit now and am still in school, and will have a very heavy course load through the rest of the year, so I don't envision battling this year, and might not be able to drive to Saranac for the build sessions. However, I would like to get the ball rolling and possibly have a combat ready ship by next summer. I would like to try attend NATs this July.

    A few questions I had for you guys; I believe in order to participate I will be required to purchase namba insurance, which I can do. Is there any other regulatory fees or club dues I would need to pay?

    I heard buying a used ship is the recommended path, but I'd like to have a new boat and have the experience of building one. I noticed on strike models that they offer "battling" kits that include everything except servos, radio, and batteries. I was wondering if these kits are recommended/a good option for a beginner? I am specifically looking at the Northampton and Moltke. Is one ship recommended more over the other? I do like the Molke's cannons that can be pointed off the side over the Northampton's cannons being pointed to the rear.

    I do have the money to buy either battling kit, but probably won't purchase anything for awhile ($600-700 plus I'm sure other building expenses- not a cheap hobby for sure). I thought I'd hold off for now and hear your thoughts.
    Thanks so much for your help!
    aleMI
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2017
  2. WillCover

    WillCover -->> C T D <<-- Captain (Supporter)

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    Welcome aboard! GLAS has two members over in your side of the state,Clawston and Novi. We have a build in Rockford on 18th
     
  3. WillCover

    WillCover -->> C T D <<-- Captain (Supporter)

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  4. aleMI

    aleMI Active Member

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    Thanks Will! Got your pm too. Just glanced through the ircwcc rules; will take a closer look at it this weekend. I'll be out of the state on the 18, but thanks for the notification!
     
  5. pigeonfarmboy

    pigeonfarmboy Well-Known Member

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    Welcome to the group, you'll also need to be a member of IRCWCC for events. I'm still a "new guy" too but have done tons of research and started on a couple builds.
    Your choices and Strike's Brooklyn and Battler's Connection's Von Der Tann would also be candidates for a rookie build. Vac-U-Boat is soon to release a Gearing kit as well that will be a simplified build.
    Reconsider your thoughts on a stern gun. Very effective and many cruisers are outfitted in that configuration.
    It's best to see this stuff first-hand before pulling the buy trigger anyways. In the meantime, you might consider starting to collect supplies/tools then you're ready to build when you decide on the boat. You'll also want to decide if you want to use solenoids or poppets for cannon actuation. Do some research on that on the forum here.

    Just adhesives alone are quite a list to tackle. You'll need a way to attach the silkspan to the balsa sheeting, most use aircraft dope. You will need to bond the balsa/silkspan combo to the hull, some use weldwood contact cement, others use watered-down Titebond woodglue. Epoxy is needed for mating the deck to the hull, sealing any wood, and other general mounts and air system components. It comes in many flavors, you'll want to research what will work for you. Scotch Kote or E6000 are used for waterproofing electronics. A tube of Sig-ment glue is used to patch those pesky bb holes. These are all common pieces to the build puzzle that would work for any boat.
    Let us know what you have for tools. A drill and dremel will do the majority of the work.

    Feel free to PM any of us if you need further clarifications or questions answered.
     
  6. aleMI

    aleMI Active Member

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    Thanks for the advice pigeonfarmboy! I've been looking at threads to see what tools I need. I have a very basic set of tools as of now. Wrenches, hammer, screwdrivers, but no power tools or dremel. I can purchase those. I imagine I'll need other supplies like electrical tape and soldering iron too. Will send you guys a PM as I have more questions, possibly to take a look at boats in person.
     
  7. aleMI

    aleMI Active Member

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    Thought I'd give an update. Talked with Kas on the phone last week, and met with Mark today to discuss the hobby, including batteries, chargers, tools, build tips, and needed accessories, as well as a little bit about battling. I was also able to take a look at Mark's Von Der Tann. Very helpful and knowledgeable guys! Appreciate their help and definitely learned a lot. Planning on making it to the battle on May 13 to see the ships in action. In terms of my first ship, my list has actually expanded. I'm leaning away from cruisers for now, since I'd like sidemounts and the ability to sink ships. Invincible is on my list, as is the Arizona and Tennessee. Right now I'm thinking of getting the Tennessee, and building it as the USS California in honor of my home state. Biggest hurdle for the California/ Arizona is the cost, so I might still go with the Invincible. Got a little more thinking to do.
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2017
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  8. WillCover

    WillCover -->> C T D <<-- Captain (Supporter)

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    Craig in Muskegon (Panzer) may have an Invincible hull for sale. or I have digital plans for the others if you feel reel industrious!;)
     
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  9. aleMI

    aleMI Active Member

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    Thanks for the offer Will! For now I plan to buy the strike kits for my first ship so I can have the basic superstructure. And maybe add my own detailing later on once I'm not such a newbie haha
     
  10. pigeonfarmboy

    pigeonfarmboy Well-Known Member

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    Seems like cost is a considerable obstacle. Scratch building a ship would save you $ but depending on your mindset and motivation to build, we may never see you on the water. It's enough of a challenge for even a kit first build. Lucky for you, you've got this group of guys supporting you to succeed. Hell I offered to give a mostly finished boat to a friend and still can't get him to commit to build or battle.

    I would still recommend waiting until you see boats in person, but here's an idea moving forward. How about getting started by purchasing just the hull and getting windows cut. You can then buy your deck and so on down the line. This of course assumes Strike/BC would piece meal some of the parts of the kit separately like that. You're also not having to buy all the tools/supplies needed all at once with this plan. Hull, Ruler, Sharpie, and Dremel w/Cutoff Wheel will get you off to a good solid start.
     
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  11. aleMI

    aleMI Active Member

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    Hi Pigeon,
    I agree, I think it will be easier for me to buy a kit from strike. My woodworking skills are novice at best, haven't done any real woodworking since I was a Boy Scout. I plan to buy all the components at once to save on shipping costs. Tools I can buy as I need. Dremel will be the first I need to buy.

    Price-wise, I have budgeted $1000 so far. After taking tools, batteries, battery charger, and building materials (Wiring, solder, balsa, silkspan, dope, etc) into consideration, that puts me in comfortable range of a cruiser. I already have a 6 channel radio and receiver, so I dont have to buy those thankfully. If I go with a cruiser, I will probably get the Northampton. Since you mentioned the Brooklyn, I'm considering that too. It'd be nice to build it as the USS Helena. She had an action packed career.

    In terms of the bigger ships, from talking with Kas, an Invincible will run about $1200 all things considered. I estimate a Tennessee at $1400. Right now, I have the most "emotional" desire to build a Tennessee (specifically her sister-ship the California), but after some consideration these past couple days, I think that is a little out of my budget (And maybe a little too big for a rookie, though if I had the money for it I would totally go for a California). Invincible is closer to my price, but I prefer WW2 American ships if I had to choose.

    Quick question, is it possible to angle the stern guns at a slight downward angle to get below the waterline shots? I know it wouldn't be as optimal due to the tip of the stern getting in the way. Talking to Mark, it seems that cruisers can't sink other ships due to being limited to stern guns. If I can build a cruiser so I can somewhat get below waterline shots, I'd feel MUCH better about getting a cruiser over the Invincible.

    Thanks for all the advice so far!
     
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2017
  12. SteveT44

    SteveT44 Well-Known Member

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    Yes, if the ship has a high enough turret and a narrow stern. On my Barham build, I put aft duels in the C turret and angled them to the side 15 degrees and as far down as I could. They will be hitting the water about 10" behind the boat.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  13. pigeonfarmboy

    pigeonfarmboy Well-Known Member

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    I'll bring a second-hand Northampton I have to Saranac in May. It's a bare hull that should be reskinned. If you dig it, we'll work something out or at the very least you can see the size. As Steve has shown, you're allowed to aim cannons 15° off center axis. No "side-mounts" on cruisers are allowed. Keep in mind the closer you get to a ship to sink it, the more damage you're going to receive. Mark's and Kas' opinions are far more valuable than mine in this regard. I would be willing to wager that most if not all guys in this hobby have more than 1 ship. You wont' be stuck with just one ship forever.
     
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  14. aleMI

    aleMI Active Member

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    Ok I see. Thanks Steve! From the picture of the Northampton below (courtesy of Strike models), the stern guns look high enough and and are close to the edge of stern, so I would likely try to angle the guns down as much as I can. Since the Brooklyn has a raised "D" turret, I imagine I might get a steeper angle. Going to look at some plans and talk to Kas or Mark.

    Pigeon, I would appreciate seeing a hull in person. And yes, I think it'd be fine if I got a a cruiser to get my feet wet (pun), and save that California for my second ship down the line.
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2017
  15. SteveT44

    SteveT44 Well-Known Member

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    One point about downward stern guns. Make them adjustable so you can play with different ranges. On my Mogador, I actually raised my cannon for a bit longer range. I found I was able to land more shots that way. Admittedly they weren't belows but every hit counts for the team! Besides, getting in to close with a cruiser can be a quick ride to the bottom.
     
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  16. aleMI

    aleMI Active Member

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    Oh yes good point. I might start out with the guns parallel to the water at first, and then start angling them down as I get used to maneuvering and aiming.
     
  17. kgaigalas

    kgaigalas Well-Known Member

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    I have owned a Brooklyn
    You could get great down angle from the D turret
    TWO things,
    one mentioned above, a down angle shot means you have to hit a one inch target (for a below) with your moving ship on another moving ship!!
    That ship has to be EXACTLY the right distance from your cruiser. (no Brooklyn that I have seen has that set-up)
    Experienced captains have a 20% below waterline hit rate.
    Also cruisers do not like to get close to other ships
    Stern guns can have an effective range of 2/3 feet. MUCH EASIER TO SCORE HITS.

    Second: Center-of-gravity
    cruisers are narrow and tippy.
    2 guns in D turret will be an issue.
    Check-out the video on the IRCWCC site - you will see a Suffren with guns in the aft turret (common arrangement)
    it is on it's side half the time.
    good questions
    kas
    I have battled an Invincible for 12 years.
    Ask around, I think you will hear it was a tough ship to battle.
     
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2017
  18. aleMI

    aleMI Active Member

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    Oh wow, that's good to know. If no one else has done it yet, I probably won't either, at least not for my first build. Might stick to arming the stern-most turret and fiddle with down angle from there. I have seen that Suffren video (and some pictures too), from my understanding I thought the Suffren seems to have trouble balancing to begin with. I read that on this forum somewhere. How difficult was it to properly balance your Brooklyn?

    EDIT: Guess I should explain that the reason I'm so focused on looking into down angling the stern guns is also a psychological factor: it would give me a small reasssurance that my cruiser can poke a hole or two that MIGHT contribute to a ship being sunk. Weird reasoning, I know! Especially since it isn't optimal with a cruiser
     
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2017
  19. kgaigalas

    kgaigalas Well-Known Member

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    My Brooklyn was tippy.
    Not as bad as the Suffren

    I was chasing a damaged Kongo with my Invincible, I could not catch it because that ship is faster,
    but because it was damaged I could continue harassing it.
    A cruiser cut in front of it and unloaded on it.
    This is the damage that finally put it down.
    Cruiser can deliver great water-line hits which can become fatal.
    ALSO you will not be patching 50+ holes on your cruiser between battles!!!
    kas
     
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2017
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  20. djranier

    djranier Well-Known Member

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    Mogami has built in stern down angle due to how the hull was made, a weight saving design, look at my picture, that is the Kumano a sister ship, you can see the down slope. Its a fairly big cruiser, and she's not afraid of no big boat. Just sank a QE this past weekend with her, plenty of below's. But only the Japanese heavy cruisers have the rear sloped deck.

    Mogami 1935a (2).jpg


    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2017
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