It's a fine solution. All that really matters is that the pump stays put and you can easily access it to clean the screen between sorties/battles.
I'm waiting for the next coat to dry, than time to flip it over. However, the pump mount may change. Being that my drive motor and gearbox sits to far back in the stern, I may see if I can't squeeze in a second pump for the ship, and go with 3 guns instead of 4. Dual sterns and a bow gun. Would need to open the area a lot for the second pump. If I did, Id hope to get them side by side, but might have to go inline which I'm assuming won't be as good. There are 2 holes for pump outlets, so it is a possibility. I think though that would depend on what my next ship will be though
Rebuilding/refitting a boat made by someone else comes with both the good things and bad things they decided. In the case of this boat, the solid deck in the stern is definitely a bad thing. The construction and woodwork is very clean, but it's an accessibility and maintenance nightmare. During my first build session in 2002ish I was told to always map out turret locations on the hull when deciding component placement. It's still one of my first steps on a new build. My seydlitz has the aft three guns permanently installed in the boat. I've built enough guns that I have confidence in my ability to make a reliable gun that won't need adjustment. If I have to troubleshoot any of those guns, or undo setscrews on the motor mount at the edge of the permanent deck, it is a giant PITA. If this were my boat, this is how I would approach it. It sounds worse than it really is, but will minimize the future headaches. If you are just looking to get on the water this year and try something else next year, maybe consider a less intrusive approach, but know that sticking with several things you inherited will make the fitting/maintenance experience more frustrating: Cut out the solid part of the stern deck with C turret. It will make the motor, pump, and guns way more accessible. Make a new deck piece that has both aft turrets Pull the prop shaft and motor mount, remount the gearbox somewhere probably under C turret. This will keep the shaft angle low and give plenty of room for the stern gun T's. The haymaker will be easier to clear over a motor. The removable deck will give clean access to motor and gear setscrews Figure out the other component placement given the motor location. This must all be done at once to make sure everything fits New pump mount is better. The little latch isn't needed as mentioned by several For guns, use compression fittings rather than soldering (Nut and delrin sleeve). A soldered gun is way more difficult to troubleshoot. Properly-tightened compression fittings will not fail. Anyone helping you get your boat running would appreciate it. I would not solder anything to the T. Soldering the elbow to the upfeed and the magazine nipple is normal I would go with the traditional class 5 setup - dual sterns in D, 75rd haymaker in C, bow sidemount in A or B Trigger pulls are more fun than patching a lot of holes. I would not recommend 2 pumps for your situation. Would need to up the batteries, and really ask yourself why you want two pumps. You want to have a reliable boat that's sinking from a lot of damage with just one pump before you go to two
Yea, I was kinda trying to get it on the water asap, but I think that's changed. I would think a ship that would work reliably, even if there were things that could be changed, would be better than a complete overhaul, especially for a new captian who has no other ship to go battle with. I didn't do the solid deck area, but I did do the motor mount. It went where it went because I went from the 1.5" prop with dogbones to a 2" prop without. At the time I didn't think it was too big of a problem and the guns can be squeezed around it (which they can) the hole that was c already there, along with where the rudders were, it ended up where it's at. Any farther into the boat would have made the motor mount too tall and not fit, and with trying to get it on the water, and not start cutting the hull i didn't go closer since i would have had to cut it out and do all that work that would entail. But I guess having a perfectly good engineered ship is better than being on the water to some. Also I'm not going to worry about the C turret area though, as if I did that' I'd just scrap the Baden and start with a 100% fresh fiberglass hull. that would be too much work imho to make it worth keeping the ship, when I'd practically be redoing most of it that I would need to do anyways with a fresh hull. As it sits now, everything can fit with the 4 gun setup. It may be a little hard if needing to work on a gun, but everything was mocked up in the boat. But since the motor and pump mount was an issue, idk if I'm going to continue trying to get it on the water this year, or just entirely redo it. The latch on the pump mount is because it's a little loose in the U. I only have some crappy spade bits, and they egged it so its doesn't sit in there tight. The latch isn't in the way of anything, easy to take off and doesn't unattach to get lost, and makes it hold in tight. Trigger pulls are more fun than patching, but both need a boat to be on the water for that. And to be on the water forward progress needs to be made towards getting there. Going back through to cut out something that is definitely in there and then filled is a step backwards. It would have been a lot easier to fix before the epoxy fill, when it was some hot glue and a little bit of waterweld epoxy putty holding it in, which it did sit like that for a while and I'm pretty sure I posted it so it could have been seen. But what's done is dome now, either I need to get the guns mounted and go play, or just cancel the rest of the year trying to battle, possibly all of next year as well, and rip it all apart. This would be my only boat on the water right now, but it won't be my one and only boat. I have thought about eventually entirely replacing it, selling or trading, for a Seydlitz, once I get another ship to go to battles with.
So after an unauthorized $106 charge on my credit card (luckily it was refunded, also a long story) I decided I needed to blow of some steam. Opened up this area a bit more since the pump mount is out. I think Im gonna go some more. Might even flip it around and hit the front part thats like this too.
The scope of work I laid out takes maybe 5-6 hours to get to an equivalent spot in the build, not an entire build season. The point of my post was that sometimes going after the slightly larger change is much better in both the short and long run. It's not a hypothetical idea from me, I've done it successfully on many boats that work pretty well, and I was very glad after the fact that I took the plunge in the shop instead of fighting a crappy layout during an event. In the past when I've done similar (and larger) modifications typically the worse part is the anticipation / trepidation to actually start cutting. The deck piece could be saved by fastening the removed piece to the existing aft hatch with two strips of ply spanning the joint on either side of the turret. The cut lines will need to be sealed but that should not be a huge deal. A shaft-ectomy on a single shaft boat isn't bad at all. Try moving the skegs out on an Iowa class to fit larger props (without breaking shaft or gearbox, and cutting through 1" thick epoxy between the skegs) Cut along the red lines in the picture. Cut out ply pieces to fasten under the existing subdeck to support the removed piece of deck (shown as green rectangles) Time estimates as follows: Cut out solid deck - 1 hour Remove motor mount and prop shaft - 1 hour Clean up inside hull grind away old epoxy - 30 min Clean up deck pieces, cut strips of ply for subdeck and deck piece joining - 30 min Cut and line up longer propshaft with better motor placement with respect to turrets - 1 hour Epoxy in motor mount, shaft, deck pieces together, subdeck support, deck edges - 1 hour Drill new holes for pump mount, seal - 1 hour
I currently don't have any more material to make a longer shaft though. So I'd have to order and wait for that. Also since I'm using 5mm shaft, I'd have to send the outer tube to get lathed out to fit the bushings, as I did before since I dont have the proper tools to make it work. And I just killed my Dremel too, so that is going to be a set back. This is as far as I got before it died. Wasn't even doing much of the heavy stuff either, I was hitting the pvc to make that more open for the 75 round haymaker.
The question is, without having another boat to battle with, would you worry about doing the work, or getting the ship going, when the "issues" can be worked around to get the ship running?
Id get the boat on the water and worry about redoing during the NON Battling season(winter) You will have 6 months that we cant battle to work on it, Battle it now.
Dude, you're in Michigan, just go to a battle and have fun, the guys will take care of you. You can make the boat better later. If we all waited until our boats were 'perfect' before taking them to the lake, we'd never get to battle.
already missed over half the season as it is now. might as well try and get the boat built "correctly" for next season. I personally would rather just gets the spot I opened up sealed, get the guns in, and run it though, it won't be my only ship, and I don't see what the real issue would be with it, as long as the building practices are fine and parts are good, it should be reliable enough. I'm not trying anything crazy or new. The motor may be in the "wrong place" but location isn't parts or construction quality.
Like everything in life, the answer for me is 'it depends.' Things I would consider are: Total work required until boat is battle ready Time to next battle Number of battles remaining in season - You are fortunate that if you miss one event, there are several more remaining in the season Free time I could dedicate to working on boats Whether I want to get this boat right or plan to move on from it for next year How much I value ease of use vs. time to get on the water Since the boat still needs some work (not like it's battle ready), I prefer to look at total time required to get it operational. Spending a bit more time on some areas can be beneficial if it saves time in other areas, or makes them much easier. Like I said, I've been happy when I make a slightly larger change that makes other things I have to do easier or the boat more fun to use. If a certain aspect is going to frustrate me at a battle, I fix it because I like my boats to be reliable (which means both build quality and knowing that if there is an issue, I'll get it fixed before the next sortie). I also spend a lot more time working on boats than most battlers so things that I consider to be a reasonable 1-2 day job might be more work than other captains put in over a year, which is fine, just different prioritization. I would never tear a boat apart if it meant missing a battle, but on the east coat there are sufficient lulls in the season so you can get a pretty good refit done mid-season with no issues Either way, time to stop typing and shift to execution phase for whatever you think will be best for your situation. A few observations not otherwise mentioned: Mounting the motor on top of the water channel typically is not something I (or anyone) would recommend - Best to keep the prop shaft as level as possible, which means getting the motor mount as low as possible. If you do decide to move the motor, I would get it to hull-level Having guns permanently installed can work, just be sure to test them extensively before installing - run several mags of BBs through them, verify different rates of fire, no feeding issues, etc. Ensure joints are tight, CA the end cap once you get the correct height set for the T Mcmaster ships parts in like 2 days, so you could have new shaft material in hand by Tuesday
once guns are in, solenoids mounted, pump mount in, floated and ballast, it would be done enough to battle. I do need to cut casemates and sheet those as well. I plan tomorrow to get the guns in, but losing my dremel is a set back. next battle is next weekend, and I would like to go, but won't have a ship ready if I start on removing the motor. 3 GLAS battles left, and Bradford is a possibility if I have it going, but if I don't those are all out of the question. I have the free time, and yes could get the materials next week, but I don't have the fun money to get them, nor a way to get the bushings to fit the tube right away. I don't have a bit to do the work, so I had sent the last one out (it was free, but just had to wait.). I also have to go camping Monday, Tuesday, and Wednesday to appease the wife, so I won't have those days to do any work. The motor sits high because of it sitting on top of the shaft. The ship had a 1.5" prop when I got it, I went with a 2" as suggested and it still sits relatively flat, i just moved it back closer to the props.If i raise the prop up any (and thus the motor down) I would be well into the hull. moving the motor back it gets into the deck ,which means it just makes the gun situation much worse than it currently is, same with moving it forward. I can make the guns work as the boat sits now. I will have one dual and the haymaker on one side, and the other stern on the other side. They would just have to be angled away from the motor. I'll get the sterns in here soon and take a picture to show what I am talking about I do plan to get another boat soon, I want to get a cruiser going so I can make Nats next year. after that I want to get an allied ship, and then a class 6, with another cruiser once I am fully committed to a class 6.
One gun is in. Went a little too steep on the down angle, but how I went about mounting the gun, it's just a matter of bending it back. It is not as much as it looks though, since the Faux barrel is angled up. Just got to figure out a way to get it measured and angled correctly. The other 3 I'm not sure what I'm going to do yet. Need something more than just some L channel to lock them in. I think I am just going to silver solder a brass tab off the elbow and then bolt that down with 2 bolts.
This all would have been a lot easier and probably cheaper than I have sunk into the hobby had I just bought a boat that's ready to go. Seems that's really the way to go about getting boats on the water, just buy one that's already built from one of the renowned builders. Than you can go around telling everyone else what they did was junk, even if it's how they got the boat (and especially if they bought it from you)
i have android, but i was able to find an app. sat it on the deck of my boat and said it was was sitting at 1 degree, I held it to the top of the gun barrel and it was reading 20, so that means it's at 19. so it should be good. it looks a lot more angled than that though.
Chill, buddy, relax. Believe it or not, most of us posting here want you to get on the water and have fun. Not here to look down on you or any of that. Best thing that happened to me is once upon a long time ago ... 1984, I talked my Mom into driving down to Alabama to see the boat thing. I didn't even have a boat. I was a 17 year old high-school boat geek. I got to meet some great people, see some boats and action, and really got stoked, and finished ("finished") my boat just in time for the 1985 Nats. I cut some corners, and guessed on more than a few things, but in the end, it worked good enough. That's why I strongly encourage just getting out there and participating. Things are never going to be perfect, especially when you're just getting started. The biggest hurdle isn't getting the boat 'just so'. It's getting the boat on the water and battling in the first place. Perfect or not. Anyway, best of luck to you. Do go and have some fun.
I took my time building my first shop which was the Cleveland sadly a tree coming through my workshop smashed it into pieces and I was getting it ready for this years NATs. So I threw together my Des Moines in about two weeks. Only really tested it going forward and reverse and steering. Tested the pump and Didn’t test the guns. I brought it anyway. Come to find out that the batteries I brought to the first battle(while the other charged in the hotel room) where both bad. A fellow captain gave me a few to use come to find out I wired the boat backwards and by connecting his battery I fried an ESC. That night I spent until about 2 am with another captain who was willing to help me and let me use his soldering iron rewiring The Whole ship. The next day I just tested the ship really and that was it. The last day of NATs the boat was ready but I didn’t put it on the water dude to the points being so close. I have now gone back and tested the ship and all systems work and I am ready for the battle in PA come sept. My advice is just put the boat together to the best of your ability and trust me there will be plenty of people to help you at an actual battle if you need anything. I just winged it with the Des Moines and it didn’t work out but it happens. In a day we had it battle ready. If it was a regular battle and not NATs I would of put it on the water and battled it.
Justin Glad to see you at NATS. You did the right thing by coming. It accelerates repairs to your boat when you are focused on nothing but the boat. As much as we may seem to bicker on line, this is the most helpful group you'll find ANYWHERE. By the way, don't feel so special because your boat had a problem, I had a shaft freeze-up on my Washington. Something I never heard of, OR is very rare!!!!It took a lot of grunting and groaning to pull the shaft and smooth it. Of course, at the same time I burned out a motor. Luckily I had a spare and soldered it up that evening, then have to pass a speed check the next morning. Trust me there are better stories than this just this NATS. (although yours is pretty good)
