Koenig Pentratable Area

I am building a Koenig. The ship has casemate guns. I marked out the hull a couple of years ago with a stringer along the armor belt. I then measured from the gunwale to where the casemate guns were placed on my plans from Loyalhanna and found them to be over 1/2" in. I don't believe any of the area of the stringer needs to be made penetrable, but wanted to confirm that with someone before going further. Any built a Koenig already?

 

Need some more info to help one this. Check out the photo below and post a measurement photo. I'm pretty sure the casements need to be open and the top of the fiberglass hull is 1/8" thick.

 

The trick w/ most of the German dread's was that in the top view drawing, the outboard line is actually the armor belt, NOT the edge of the deck. Believe me, I went round & round w/ the rules lawyers regarding Baden's casements back in the day. Only thing I can tell you is look over the colorized drawings in the appendix of the IRC rules and see if that helps.

 

Thanks,

I will go ahead and take a couple pictures with a ruler on both the plan and the actual hull. To be honest above the top of the bulge probably isn't much taller than what would be taken up by the deck and subdeck if they are flush to the hull. Fortunately, time is on my side.

 

I am adding some pictures to make this clearer. Based on the hull and drawings I don't think I need to knock out sections above the top of the belt where the casemate guns are located.

 

Aside from this a separate issue I have is should this material at the bow and stern above my stringer be removed?

 

From the rules:

Deck Step: The point on a ship where the weather deck is allowed to step down to the next lower deck. A “deck step” can occur for two reasons:

1) When the weather deck of the ship continues but moves inwards from the next lower deck’s gunwale more than ½” and does not at any point come back to ½” or less from that gunwale with respect to viewing a ship from bow to stern.
2) The weather deck ceases, but there are lower decks that continue with respect to viewing a ship from bow to stern. If the inset that leads to the step deck does not incorporate any casemates between where it begins and where it goes >1/2" inset, then the step may move to the beginning of the inset rather than at the >1/2" mark.​

The way I read the above. If all the red area below is a 1/2" or greater then the deck step begins at point A. If this is the case, all the casemate area becomes superstructure.

 

Found the builder drawings for the Kaiser class which is what your somewhat vague Konig drawings are probably based from. That line your measuring from appears not to be the gunwale but a ledge stuck on the side of the hull. Why the founders just didn't stipulate that if it wasn't flush with the side it's impenetrable and ignore armor belts I'll never know.

 

Those are really cool drawings, where did you find those?

 

Hi,

I am the original author of the current casemate/casement rules. From what I have seen of your photos as well as a look at the plans referenced above, the deck step is at the back of the red area in the photo. (End of red at the stern/ midship end) I reposted the photo I am speaking of.

You asked if the area above the stringer needs to be cut out, the answer is yes.

Some of the areas around the casemates will be solid, but most of it looks to be less than 1/2" from the deck edge.

If you need more info, I will work on a diagram for you like I did for the appendix in the rules. It would be good for it to get added to the appendix so as to remove confusion in the future for future captains.

Thanks,
Tim Beckett

 

Tim,

Thanks for your reply.

For starters can you tell me what you intended the cupola to be? The definition I have is "a rotating turret that carries a sighting device rather than weaponry.

This is the rule I have been looking at, along with the image:

16. On ships which have casemate mounted guns, the cupolas may be constructed of impenetrable material. A 1/8" wide strip on each side of the cupola may also be impenetrable. If a flat bulkhead area between cupolas is inset more than 1/2" from the edge of the gunwale the entire casemate area (cupolas and all flat bulkhead areas inset greater than 1/2") may be made impenetrable.

a. Measurement of the inset of casemates is determined by scale plans, not actual built measurements. In the case of a discrepancy between plans, the plans in question should be submitted to the Board of Directors and the Casemate Committee for review and a final decision. This is to keep captains from modifying the location of casemates to allow making the casemates hard.

 

Also, from looking at the plans, and Appendix A in the rule you are saying the deck step runs from the drop at the bow to the last casemate gun correct?

 

I marked up the picture below to show you what I am thinking. I believe amidships most everything is greater than 1/2" but I want to make sure I am measuring the right thing. I checked this out with Johnny in Houston (Baden) when I originally marked everything off, and we didn't think it would need to be removed.

Thanks,

Mike

 

Cupola is the rotating part that the casemented gun is mounted to. Think curved plate of armor with a gun sticking out, that can slide (rotate) left or right for the gun to aim. Often depicted in our hobby by cutting a section of 1/2" or 5/8" dowel

 

I no longer remember what the colors mean except that ... I think.. yellow is cut-out and the blue/yellow was dependent on which line was the 'gunwhale'. Based on the definition of the torpedo net ledge and armor belt, the gunwhale is clearly the same line on which 'rope cleats' can be seen in the plans. If you remeasure based on that line then I think the blue areas will need to be yellow.. that's my best guess after a couple years.

The easy definition of the cupola is the round part for our purposes.. so the round part gets 1/8 inch hard area on either side of it.

 

The casement rule make sense when applied to ships that have casements that merge with the hull or sit below the hulls gunwhale.. on ships where the casements are built on an island .. ON THE DECK.. this rule does not work well. The Baden and Konig should have a 1/4 deck (to hold the boat together) below the casements because that is the hull's gunwhale.

When the forcastle deck seperates from the hull and does not merge again with the hull.. the gunwhale is obviously lower. No problem cutting out the casements.. but the deck levels didn't need to change.

On other ships where the casements merged with the hull... sure .. the casement deck was a stringer. On the Baden and Konig.. the casements are mounted on the deck and never, at any time, merge with the hull like on the QE or other ships.

Just saying. Of course.. the diagram is for information.. I didn't see anywhere in the rules that required a certain deck to be a certain thickness...it just states what must be cut out.

 

Here is the photo I sent Johnny back when he was reworking his Baden. Might help.
I think you are best to make the deck under the casements 1/4" and the deck above the casements 1/8" and have a 1/8" stringer for the belt. Leaves more fiberglass to glue the deck too.
As Tim noted earlier you need to open the area of the casements between the cupalas and take out the space above the stringer.