Looking For Laser cut wood hull kit or wood hull.

Discussion in 'Buy, Sell and Trade' started by -mK.._, Jul 19, 2022.

  1. -mK.._

    -mK.._ Member

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    Looking for a wood hull kit/assembled wood kit/hull, everyone iv heard of has either stopped selling them or has quit the hobby.
     
  2. darkapollo

    darkapollo Well-Known Member

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    For what ship?
     
  3. -mK.._

    -mK.._ Member

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    iv found a kit its the verite :D
     
  4. Commodore

    Commodore Well-Known Member

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    Verite', you say? Dang, I'm kinda jealous. I tried to beg someone to sell me theirs at Nats, but no dice.

    Like I need another ship anyway. :p
     
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  5. -mK.._

    -mK.._ Member

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    Yeah, it will be my first build so im pretty hyped...it might a bit of a challenge but iv done a good amount of models and woodworking so i think I can do it!
     
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  6. Lord Haw Haw

    Lord Haw Haw Member

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    A hobby that started with scratch built wood hulls. Gets lucky enough that really skilled people start making wood hulls and kits. Then those very people stop selling them and quit the hobby?

    I don't know the whole story. But I got one part of it, and I quote "Due to some issues with people copying hulls I do not plan to ever produce another run of kits for the hobby"
     
  7. Xanthar

    Xanthar Well-Known Member

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    I believe that Open Source projects are the way forward. Pool our resources and compensate the creators for their time, to make it worth their effort, then release the resulting design/production files. At that point copying is not a problem, it is simply more boats on the water. If there is a good candidate hull, I would be willing to give this a try.
     
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  8. darkapollo

    darkapollo Well-Known Member

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    I put hundreds upon hundreds of hours into fully fleshing out a boat hull. Its not just getting the shape, but planning out how everything fits together, and then revising things. I have no problem uploading a hull solid. That takes no time to make and is a good starting point for someone else to make the boat the way they want to.
    Will and I talked about this at length and people who havent tackled building a 3d printed boat from start to finish don’t really know the amount of effort that goes into it. I wouldnt release my designs for just anyone to print.
     
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  9. GregMcFadden

    GregMcFadden Facilitator RCWC Staff

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    The prior statements on time are true getting the Deutschland to a reasonably ready beta 3D printable hull required significant time but more than that about three or four kilograms of plastic prints as trials just to debug various features. I released it because it is a really really good beginner ship and the parts included in that model address much of the difficulty see I've seen people have with building their first ship
     
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  10. darkapollo

    darkapollo Well-Known Member

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    To that end, I have revised the Derf a dozen times since I printed it to accommodate things that I didnt properly plan for. The version I printed is very difficult to arm or change batteries because things are over engineered and in the way. The initial design was for a modular construction where things just drop in. Battery trays, electronic modules, motors, servos, everything was means to be ‘upgradeable’ and ‘hot swappable’. The guns were supposed to be 3D printed and drop in so they could be repositioned and changed but problems with feeding and consistent RoF put a damper on that; retrofitting tube magazine guns in place of the drop in modules has been a tremendous headache, so much so that Ive abandoned it. The battery trays drop in but the wiring harness is an absolute mess and changing the batteries is a frustrating task. There is a cross brace right at the CoG that stiffens the hull but I hadnt added the battery trays to the design when I made that and it is in the way of the harness.
    There is a lot I did wrong with it. I could probably get it into combat, but I wouldnt be happy with it.
    Even if I hadnt spent hundreds upon hundreds of hours working and revising it, I wouldnt feel that a novice (which lets face it, I am) would be able to build a functioning ship out of it.
    I would have no problems releasing the solid hull like I have done in the past for someone else to make a ship from; but not as an ‘almost ready to fight’ ship.
     
  11. Radioman

    Radioman Active Member

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    I be willing to pay for the files. I belive a person should be paid for their time and effort. Been trying to learn Fusion 360 but having a rough time of it. Just my 2cents.
     
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  12. Xanthar

    Xanthar Well-Known Member

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    I've printed several ships and run countless rolls of filament through the six printers I've owned in the past decade. While I haven't invested as much time as @GregMcFadden and @darkapollo have, I'm not deterred. As an R&D Engineer I have no illusions about prototyping being quick and easy. I've put 100 hours into the Littorio Super alone. While I didn't meet the deadline that I'd set for myself, I'm not done with it yet. The other thing that I want to point out is that this thread isn't about a complete ship nor is it about 3d printing. Laser cut ship hulls have been done before and I'm working on one for a personal project already. That's a bit less work than what you've mentioned.
     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2022
  13. Xanthar

    Xanthar Well-Known Member

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    Like you said. It was a good ship for beginners and it made it easier for them. I applaud you and believe that we need more of this. So my question is this : What ship would make a good laser/cnc hull kit?

    I've been re-examining @Tugboat 's thread on the Edgar Quinet and I have one to dissect as that was my entry point into the hobby. It's probably not the best choice but, it may not be the worst?
     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2022
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  14. GregMcFadden

    GregMcFadden Facilitator RCWC Staff

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    Personally I think a ship the size of the provence is really ideal. It can handle the extra weight you get in wood and allows better weight distribution than the Deutschland. Realistically anything much over 12 to 13 lb standard displacement makes everything much easier.

    I went from fiberglass to Wood partly as an experiment and then I found that I much preferred building wood ships to fiberglass then I went to the 3D printed Deutschland and I realized that the amount of work that that removes from the build process is as significant as the amount of stuff I don't like to do that I got rid of when I went from glass to Wood
     
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  15. Commodore

    Commodore Well-Known Member

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    I'm going to suggest a couple of ideas, for folks to consider, but they would probably (definitely) require a rule change.

    One of the first is to create a generic "cruiser/armored cruiser/whatever" hull, something simplified, maybe like a WWI Scharnhorst hull without the casemates, or a compromise of several designs. Using the Armored cruiser for example, set it up for twin sterns, or whatever, single prop, single rudder, no casemates, and maybe have a modular/removable bow so you could have a French style bow, German style, etc. Or just go French style because it's less likely to cause ram damage.

    Likewise, have a set of basic superstructure bits that reflect maybe a Brit or German, or whatsis aesthetic. Again, just keep it simple. Modest weight, modest investment, easy to get on the water.

    A similar thing could probably be done with the Von der Tann hull form for a beginner "sidemount" boat.

    As mentioned, this would probably require a rules change, and I think that we would want to make it so that such ships would be "competitive" and fun enough for beginners, but not so good that veterans would be wanting them, if you know what I mean. Or maybe have that be part of the rule. I don't know, I'm just throwing stuff at the wall here, but ...

    Yeah, this is something that's bugged me for a while, and it would be nice if we had a fun, easy to get into solution for it.

    I think the most important thing is smooth, easy to sheet hull shape, and everything printed, even the decks, so no deck rim/plywood cutting issues, etc.

    Whatcha think?
     
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  16. darkapollo

    darkapollo Well-Known Member

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    Thats a fun idea. Instead of a ‘generic’ ship, I think maybe doing a few maybe 3 unit ships that are fully kitted out, just ‘drop in the electronics and go’ would be great. Sadly the German offerings often have funky deck steps and casemates which would make sheeting a bit harder. Or heck, there is nothing saying a 4 unit ship cannot be 3 units. Take something like Derfflinger and arm B and C since they have the most down angle and make it a 3 unit ‘beginner’ build. That would also allow the boat to grow without needing an overhaul or a totally new boat.
     
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  17. Kotori87

    Kotori87 Well-Known Member

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    Why create a fake ship? We already have a fairly well-matched pair of boats. Invincible and VDT. Both are 4 units, 4-shaft dual rudder battlecruisers with virtually identical dimensions. The only difference between the two is VDT has casemates to deal with. If you're designing a hull for rookies (or for me), just omit the casemates for easier sheeting. With 3d-printed cannons, you can drop a cannon in each turret, and swap them around to try different weapon layouts. The VDT is on my to-do list, just gotta finish refits and the Mikasa project first.
     
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  18. darkapollo

    darkapollo Well-Known Member

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    The 3D printed guns don’t feed well enough for a consistent RoF for fast gun use. I have built a dozen different designs (including yours) and they all load great for about 5 rounds and then need the shake-n-bake to get them to continue feeding.
     
  19. Kotori87

    Kotori87 Well-Known Member

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    Even the design with the coil magazine? I've had countless problems with the tightly-packed BIC style ones, but the coil magazine cannons work every time for me. Now that I've got another printer to play with, I'll see about trying more things.
     
  20. GregMcFadden

    GregMcFadden Facilitator RCWC Staff

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    It is all about process control with the cannons. I have 3D printed cannons that I can print and get almost 100% yield that fire consistently every time. I've also developed test pieces that I print for each Spool and if those pieces don't fit together correctly either too loose or too tight the cannons won't work reliably. The cannons are fairly sensitive to the ID of bb passages and any little nibs or stringing or blobs that might be on the passage walls.