looking into the hobby

Discussion in 'Great Lakes Attack Squadron (GLAS)' started by wdodge0912, Mar 31, 2018.

  1. Kotori87

    Kotori87 Well-Known Member

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    The multi-B converts the radio signal to an electric signal so you can use solenoids. Poppets are mechanically actuated valves that require a servo to press the button. I guess you could get the Multi-B card and then use servos and poppets for firing, but that defeats the purpose of getting the Multi-B in the first place. Maybe if you go with poppets now and upgrade to solenoids later...
     
  2. Kevin P.

    Kevin P. Well-Known Member

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    You are consistently low balling your battery need estimate. If you go with SLA then you will need at minimum 4x 6v 12ah bricks, one per sortie, 4 sorties per day. I wouldn’t be comfortable using that low of battery capacity, it would provide for low margin. This was all covered about 4 pages ago in posts

    You shouldn’t use Steve’s build as a single data source for what to do, a light cruiser and a class 5 boat are quite different. A lot of his stuff is innovative, but innovative doesn’t mean rookie friendly. How do you think your motors would work at 24v?

    Skip the cart and buy another gun instead
     
  3. wdodge0912

    wdodge0912 Well-Known Member

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    that would be the plan. Idk what comes with the gun kits. depends on what I would have to buy to get them to work, if i end up spending half the cost of the solenoids to use the multi B to work with poppets, might as well upgrade to start with. but if it's only like $10 bucks more, i'd use them starting out. it doesn't say exactly what is included or needed, just that everything is there.


    i meant Steve's boat helped my how all the insides get put together. i wouldn't be going 24v.

    Those batteries i posted were 8ah 11.1v, so almost double the voltage of a 6v, i would assume they would be good for one battle. the plan was to come fully charged, use one for one sortie, switch and throw it on the charger. after the second sortie the other one would be thrown on. then by the third sortie the first one should be charged, and I'd use that. 12ah seems like an awful lot for a motor, a servo, a pump. and a few guns, especially using poppets. also these are a 4s 10ah battery that are cheaper yet. so 2 of those should be plenty I would think. if 20ah @ 6v per battle is plenty, surely 10ah @ 14.8v is too.

    http://www.banebots.com/product/M5-RS550-12.html is the motors i would be getting. as for an ESC i could single battery an EVX-2 esc, or go with a Hobbywing 860. even though the 860 is dual motors, one set of leads can be left unplugged and it will still work.I have the HW860 on my clodbuster and I had to make sure the rear motor rotation was matched to the front, so i hooked them up individually to figure out the color combinations, as the motors on the Clod were old school yellow and blue, instead of black and red.
     
  4. SteveT44

    SteveT44 Well-Known Member

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    Hmm...

    If I was going to build a Konig and I had a new HF that just opened nearby. I might consider a center shaft direct drive RS755 motor running off the HF 20V 5AH pack. I'd put the biggest prop that would fit. That would be a beast of a setup. Should be power efficient and I bet one pack will go two sorties easy.
     
  5. wdodge0912

    wdodge0912 Well-Known Member

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    what esc would you use? i don't know any brushed esc's that go that high for voltage, that aren't really expensive, but i guess that would be a buy it once kind of thing.
     
    Last edited: May 2, 2018
  6. SteveT44

    SteveT44 Well-Known Member

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  7. SteveT44

    SteveT44 Well-Known Member

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    Last edited: May 2, 2018
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  8. wdodge0912

    wdodge0912 Well-Known Member

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    a big 775 motor, i for sure would go direct drive. and that ESC would work, I'd need a BEC anyways for the receiver with the multi B, as it is unregulated voltage coming out of the board for the receiver pass-through. Lithium drill batteries have the low voltage cutoff's in them, correct?
     
  9. SteveT44

    SteveT44 Well-Known Member

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    The Lowe's batteries DO NOT have a low voltage cutoff. I do not know about the HF battery's. I surmise that most tool manufacturers do not have the LV cutoff in the packs but instead rely on the tools controller to sense voltage and decide whether to turn on or not.
     
  10. wdodge0912

    wdodge0912 Well-Known Member

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  11. WillCover

    WillCover -->> C T D <<-- Captain (Supporter)

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  12. wdodge0912

    wdodge0912 Well-Known Member

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  13. SteveT44

    SteveT44 Well-Known Member

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  14. NASAAN101

    NASAAN101 Well-Known Member

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    I was wondering what they were called.
    Nikki
     
  15. Kevin P.

    Kevin P. Well-Known Member

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    I’m not sure how you are developing your high confidence assessments about what battery capacity needs are. I make recommendations from my post battle charging data. For a standard 6v nominal pump, I typically see about 4Ah to 9Ah of discharge per sortie. For drive I run 4s LiFe and typically see 1Ah to 2.5Ah at 13.2 volts. If you add those up at 6v nominal it come out to about 6Ah to 14Ah per sortie. But those are just numbers from actual ships in actual battles, so your pre battle intuition is probably a better reference point. I like to have enough capacity on board to stay under 75% discharge.

    I’ve lost track of where you’re at with battery intentions, it does seem pretty clear that you’ve strayed significantly further away from basic KISS principles. For perspective, about 75% of active battlers run 6v nominal systems, 24% run 12v nominal, and Steve runs 24v. In general if your decision making process leads you down the path of selecting a method that only one or two people that actually battle use, you should probably recalibrate your methodology. Take a look at what the other battlers are using in your area and go from there
     
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  16. thegeek

    thegeek Well-Known Member

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    I agree with Kevin, well kind of. Build like "others" in your area, spare parts and trouble shooting is greatly enhanced with vets looking on. I like 12 volts and have used it from the beginning, I did own a 6 volt VW and that car taught me well.
    If I could run 440V I would run it, but it would be hard to trouble shoot and hard to get ESC's that fit. I use about 96 watts for pump per battle in my Nassau and about 36 watts for drive, on 12 volts.
     
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  17. SnipeHunter

    SnipeHunter Well-Known Member

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    Based on current sensor data (aka actual usage data not charging data) my Bismarck typically uses about 120-160 watt-hours per DAY (2 battles/4 sorties). That's from looking at years of usage data, not just one tiny local battle.

    That's a 4S LiFe system with brushless pump as well as drive motor. Gearbox (because that's better than direct drive) on the motor/propshaft.
     
    Last edited: May 3, 2018
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  18. jadfer

    jadfer Well-Known Member

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    Hello!! I had been busy and unable to respond to the thread. Welcome to the group and I hope we see you on the water ASAP! With that said let me recommend a few things.

    First of all and MOST importantly! Your best assistance and advice will come from your local group. They are the ones you will be interacting with for the first year or so almost exclusively in person. I can’t stress enough the importance of using the advice and support of the local group in not only choosing your ship but the same batteries, connectors, and other equipment. When you need a spare ANYTHING the local group will not only have exactly what you need but will also be familiar with the product and able to provide expert assistance on all the subtle nuances about it

    For example.... lets say your local group uses Spektrum Radios.. or Futaba.. for Flysky.. and you show up with a radio none of them have ever heard of... and need programming assistance in order to make the next sortie due to an issue.... its possible that nobody will be able to help you.

    Let’s say you buy a type/size battery and it fails for whatever reason... and you got an odd size/ah/chemistry... no loaners for you that day.

    What if you need to swap a motor? And you have 1o minutes... no time for soldering... and unless you are going to stock about 50 different connector adapters... it might be better to standardize on the same connectors they use in your area.

    Same goes for speed controls... firing boards.. etc.

    You have a great group with some great guys in MI that can help you make a great boat.

    PLEASE PLEASE let them give you guidance before you make any purchases... as it has been stated WE WANT YOU ON THE WATER!!! And they are your best advisors.

    That said for rookies my vote is VDT for Axis and I-boat for Allies. Fewer guns to manage on battle day... but enough guns to make it fun. Also great slugging ships and the best way to learn is to dive in and take your licks.

    Good luck and best wishes in the hobby!!
     
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  19. SteveT44

    SteveT44 Well-Known Member

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    So I wonder who that foolish SOB was that was the second one to adopt 12V? Must have been a glutton for punishment? ;)

    I'll throw this out there regarding voltage. IMO, 6v is going the way of the Dodo in the hobby world (it sure has gone that way everywhere else). The drone guys are driving R/C today and these dudes are moving to higher voltages for the longer run times and more efficient (and lighter) drives. The fact that HK is now shipping 8s capable BEC's is proof of this. IMO, starting fresh in the hobby at 6v is akin to starting out in NASCAR with a Model T. I'd hate to see anybody make the significant investment in an antiquated voltage infrastructure (batteries, chargers, ESC's, etc.) because usually once that investment is made, that's where you stay. If you open your mind a little bit and take a look at whats available in the DC world outside the hobby, you'll have a wealth of affordable and readily available options in 18, 20, or 24 volts just sitting on your local hardware store shelf. In the industrial controls world, 24v is king. The complete Spartan solenoid lineup ships stock at 24v as an example. Look at the ROV and robot combat world, 24V is the norm.

    I'm not saying 6v is a particularity bad choice, IMO, its just not the best choice today. There's obviously many battlers that run 6v very successfully and have been doing so for 30 years. The argument that 6v is easier? I just don't get that. To be competitive, 6v needs big wires and big connectors. It needs brushless outrunners on reduction gears and custom battery packs built up from high amp/rate cells sourced from shady Chinese firms. You need to use special hobby chargers that need to be programmed for the specific chemistry, cell count, and AH of your custom pack. Where's the simplicity in all that?
     
    Last edited: May 3, 2018
  20. thegeek

    thegeek Well-Known Member

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    Yes steve most will have issues with "new"
    Some will be going really slow and have a vet come up along side and suggest a voltage increase , then that same rookie will claim it his idea. Yeh seen all types and kinds.
     
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