Well i am in the South of Seattle and have already met a number of folks at Hovey's house. I want to thank Nick right of the bat for paitently talking to me. I have done some reading already but not enough. The "War Department" told me i could build ONE ship. So which one. So i would like to build something that i will not outgrow in one season and have to beg the "War Department" for more funds. From what i have seen already and heard from the local guys we are own small pounds, so i would like to be quick and manuverable but still carry a punch. I am thinking a ship capable of 2 sterns and one bow or have more then that and a reasonable pump so that my mistakes might be recoverable. I have been looking at the Prince Eugene and the Des Moine but i dont think either will turn fast enough, however i do not have any actual fact to base that on. Alos is there a comparison of all ship kits out there because right now what i am doing is looking off Striker Models and Battle Connections and comparing numbers. It would be nice to have a chart i could look thorugh. Thanks Kent
A quick note Kent. The "War Department" is usually more often referred to as "The Admiral". =] I'll let other people chime in about the best ship, but welcome to the hobby, and glad to have another Seattle area person here!
Welcome to the hobby! I have asked similar questions, and I have always been told to look into battle cruisers like the Invincible from Strike and the Von Der Tan from Battlers Connection. This link is to one of the imes I asked about beginner ships http://rcnavalcombat.com/Forum/tabid/58/aff/549/aft/443445/afv/topic/Default.aspx. So far the hardest part I have had is picking a ship, but my build hasn't started yet, so I'll have to get back to you on that one. Good luck with whatever ship you choose, and the people on here are very nice and take time to help us new guys. Cheers, Garrett
Keri, thanks for the correction....calling the wives the "War Department" is more of a family tradition. I am not the first one to use that term in my family on a regular basis. Also Keri, i am going to venture a guess that i met your husband when i met Nick and Hovey and a few others. Garrett, i just read that thread, before posting this one. If anyone else has good threads to read please steer me towards them. I have read a number of them but i know i haven't read them all.
Welcome aboard, kRob! Garret's Awe-Inspiring Boats thread has a lot of good info on great ship to pick. In your first post, you said about building one ship that you won't out grow very soon but still have a decent punch. Battlecruisers fit the bill perfectly. USS Brooklyn http://www.strikemodels.com/products/ships/uss-brooklyn/ DKM Prinz Eugen http://battlersconnection.com/html/PrinzEugen.htm FN Suffren http://battlersconnection.com/html/suffren.html USS Des Moines http://battlersconnection.com/html/desmoines.html USS Northampton http://www.strikemodels.com/products/ships/uss-northampton/ HMS Invincible http://www.strikemodels.com/products/ships/hms-invincible/ SMS Defflinger http://www.strikemodels.com/products/ships/sms-derfflinger/ SMS Von Der Tan http://battlersconnection.com/html/vdt.html SMS Scharnhorst http://battlersconnection.com/html/smsscharnhorst.html DKM Lutzow http://www.strikemodels.com/products/ships/dkm-lutzow/ I've compiled this list of some of the better starter boats. You might have seen it before. Out of those choices, Suffren Invincible, Lutzow, and VDT are probably your best choices. Suffren because she has excellent turning and is very easy to build. Check out my build . Invincible because she has good turning, just enough firepower to make her hard to beat, but not so much that she will be expensive to arm. Lutzow is pretty much the same as the Iboat except that she is German which is cool. And last but not least, VDT. She is pretty close to the I-boat, just that she has casemates, which can be difficult for a beginner but not too hard. This is just the tip of the iceburg as far as ships go, but it is a good start. And if you have any questions, ask them. There are lots of people on here besides myself that would be glad to help you. Beaver
I'm not an expert, and there are people on here that have run them that would know, but I would imagine fairly well. She has three props, which lets you power the middle one and have the other two as drag props improving turning. She has only one rudder which is not as great as two. She is also a bit longer that some cruisers, which is said to lower turning ability, but I would imagine not too much. All in all, I would say she would be a pretty good turner. ( not to mention, very pretty) Not as good of a turner as some. Check out this video of a Suffren class cruiser turning. http://youtu.be/jZqkHr002rs Beaver
KRob. Two questions: 1) Is there a boat or country that you really DON'T want to build, and 2) Is there anything that you'd really like to build? Give us an idea of your tastes
Well, looking back at my old notebook from when I joined the hobby a decade+ back, I went through pretty much the same list as above and ended up with a Suffern (which is now living somewhere out in California at last update). Suffern, Invincible, VdT and Derf were the shortlist. I've often thought back that Derf would have been a good boat. Fast, decent maneuverability, good hull capacity for gear and the ability for multiple gun setups. She's not really a slugger (vdt and I boat fill that role better) nor is she a fast cruiser. But she's fast enough to play run and gun decently as well as has sidemount options for when you get more experienced.
Uh... Lutzow class IS NOT basically the same as an I-boat. More like a Suffren that doesnt turn quite as well, but could mount triples. Build a Des Moines and our current fleet will either give you nothing worth shooting at or tear you apart. Its really not a cruiser friendly fleet right now unless you can turn well. Hopefully that will change at some point but right now we all seem to like our WW1 ships. Pick anything on the list and you should be fine though. For battle cruisers: If you think you like getting closer (higher risk/higher reward) then build an I-boat or VDT. Pick a Derf if you want to stay a little farther back. All three are great ships when battle properly. If you can swing slightly more money/complexity the Iron Duke would be a great ship as well that you would never out grow with duel sterns, two sidemounts and 26 sec speed.
Tugboat, first preference would be German. I like the looks of the post DN ships. And really prefer the WWII look. I am not a fan of the Suffren, I think she is a little ugly and would prefer one more battle unit. I think I would out grow her in one season. Hovey why is it not a cruiser friendly fleet?
Tugboat, first preference would be German. I like the looks of the post DN ships. And really prefer the WWII look. I am not a fan of the Suffren, I think she is a little ugly and would prefer one more battle unit. I think I would out grow her in one season. Hovey why is it not a cruiser friendly fleet?
Tugboat, first preference would be German. I like the looks of the post DN ships. And really prefer the WWII look. I am not a fan of the Suffren, I think she is a little ugly and would prefer one more battle unit. I think I would out grow her in one season. Hovey why is it not a cruiser friendly fleet?
Ok, let me start by saying that Im not trying to get you into a particular boat, and I just want you to have fun. That way you keep coming back and we get another boat on the water to shoot at so its a win win for everyone. That said I do think that a ship with sidemounts (class4 and up) offers more options to the captain and would be less likely to be out grown quickly. But any working and reliable ship is way more fun than no ship! Cruisers are opportunists that live on the outside of the battle. They are able to swoop in and engage only as long as they are being ignored and then they flee. Since they are faster than most ships this normally isnt an issue. At the other end of the spectrum is the sluggers, generally WW1 boats that are slow and very maneuverable with sidemounted cannon and often little balsa above the waterline, they like to get close alongside and shoot at the enemies red balsa. But since they are slow they cant normally force a faster ship to fight. While cruisers try to play a lower risk game, these boats are playing a higher risk/higher reward play style. Both can be effective in the right hands but the play style is very different. The local issue is two fold. First our current pond is too small to really run away so speed is no longer a reliable defense (we would like to fix this). And secondly since most of us are in WW1 ships right now, we are low in the water and very maneuverable. This makes for very hard targets for a cruiser to deal effective damage (listen to the Nats coverage about how hard it is for a NC or SoDak to land hits on WW1 pig boats). That combination when combined with a long tallish cruiser like a Des Monies is that you will turn very poorly compared to the bulk of the fleet, you will have little to shoot at, you cant run away, and unless we ignore you you will be at our mercy. I would not consider that a fun position to play in. Now we will probably play nice for a while until you get the hang of things but eventually someone is going to come after you. If we consider a battlecrusier in this situation (but feel free to insert other boats mentally). A BC, like most ships, plays somewhere in between the above extremes. A derf is closer to the cruiser side and a VDT or I-boat is closer to a slugger, but they are all still solidly in the middle. A BC can maneuver, A BC is not slow so can run away(at most normal ponds), a BC is generally low in the water making stern guns more lethal, and a BC has sidemounts that make it more dangerous to come along side her. All of this makes her a much more capable ship able to defend herself and possessing a variety of options for attack (stern and sides). If you havent already read the Commodore's Tactics you really should. But bare in mind that we do not count points like the rest of the IRC, we just look at sinks. This places extra emphasis on dealing waterline and below damage to count for anything as a hole above the water only causes the ships captain to patch but will never sink the ship. http://www.scrapcombatships.com/commodore/tactics/tactics.html edit: I agree that the Suffren is kinda ugly, but she does perform well.
The server pooped for a while there after I'd typed a response. I like the von Der Tann for a good solid German ship. 26 seconds is plenty of speed, and the VDT gets two side-by-side rudders vice two inline rudders like the other German BCs. You will find both new people and seasoned vets running around in BCs. Good all-around ships with lots of tactical utility.
Hovey, thanks for wading in. I thought I read the tactical pieces but what I remember was they were all big gun. Also thanks for spelling it out on our ponds and the BC part.
Is there a spread sheet or site that compares all the ships offered by Striker Models and Battle connections. Battle units, speed, dimension, rudders etc? Also were does a guy find the web page with the club(S) rules, so i can go through and learn the basic rules of thumbs. What are the basic rules of thumb to tell how well a ship will turn?
I also happen to know that the locals here do allow launched but never completed and that there are two mackensen kits sitting with certain folks that are not built yet (three if you count mine) just to toss that log your way, although that means a wood hull, which builds a bit different than glass. I wasn't able to come out to Hovey's so hopefully I can meet you in the spring. -Greg
Sorry, but as far as I know, there isn't a spreadsheet for that. Here are the IRCWCC's rules. Which is what I believe people play out there. http://www.ircwcc.org/files/Forms/Rules/Rules_inHTML.html I don't know when they were last updated, so some things on there might have changed. Some rules of thumb for turning, eh? Short, fat ships turn better than long, skinny ships. Three props are usually better than four. And dual rudders are best. Beaver
