Lifting them too the surface generally the weight isnt the issue, its once they breech the surface and you lose that extra bouyancy that it gets ugly. Most efficient way ive seen it done is to drive them back in semi submerged with the deck just at or below waterlevel (still gotta be in the water supporting the bottom but it beats trying to lift it out of the water). Then have a cart ready to drive it onto and wheel back to the table.
That makes a lot of sense, but I guess the real issue would be swimming for it if it sank in deeper water out in the middle of a lake or pond.
Actually, Chris, Brian K and I have been working on an amphibious (powered, even!) boat hauler to launch battleships with... Brian's back needs all the help it can get and I'd prefer it if my best friend could stay in the hobby so I can shoot at his boats I'll post some pics next time I'm at his house... But at a minimum, if I deploy Wisconsin, she'll get at least a waterproof wheeled cart for launch/retrieval.
What I've been toying with idea-wise for the Iowa is including a retrieval framework integrated into the hull; the float deploys but it links to the base of the hull and the float has a carabeaner or some other hook system so that the boat can be hauled up from a rowboat or an inflatable raft or something without someone having to dive for it.
That's a nice system, Iceman. The pond I'll be doing my initial testing in is probably about ten feet deep at its deepest, maybe twelve, but it's murky as all get-out; if by some miracle battles get to happen there, there really isn't much question of trying to dive for ships; better to have a well-anchored float that conceals a hook that can be connected to some retrieval craft and just haul it up with a little gruntwork instead of holding breath and hoping to find it, lol. Whichever ship I get first, that'll be how I set it up; whenever I manage to get my hands on said ship, I'll document my design and integration process. Should be fun!
Based on the style of battling you've said you like, I would agree a battlecruiser might be a good choice. Among the best options (available with fiberglass hulls and ship kits) for an Axis beginner are the German Moltke or Von der Tann. For an Allied beginner, the best bet is probably the British Invincible. Since you really want to start with a US ship, I think you hit the nail on the head earlier with a modernized Tennessee or West Virginia. They don't really have the long range sniping capability, but they are a reasonable compromise between size, speed, maneuverability, and relative ease of construction for a beginner. The Tennessee also gives you some options on gun setups with a triple stern and single sidemount or double stern and two sidemounts.
I am a big fan of the Tennessee class also. There is a lot of room to work with and it is very forgiving. I run my Arizona with two sides and a dual off the back. It's a good set up which defends all sides well.
It's too bad that Strike Models doesn't offer a complete or semi-complete kit for the Tennessee yet; their hull looks really good. Battler's Connection has a nice West Virginia setup, too. Yay for options!
I have bought hulls from both Strike and BC. Excellent service from both organizations. You won't be disappointed by either.
Strike Models will be making kits for more ships, and I think the Tennessee is on our list -- I'll have to check with Stephen on that one. But it's on the list for AFTER the big gun cannons are ready. =]
I have battled the Brooklyn class. I battle under the MWC rules. It is a good beginers boat. It is my first ship. Plenty of room and I was able to get her light as well. She handles good for a cruiser. Won't be able to out turn the twin rudder ships but It got me hooked in the hobby. Also if you do end up battling in rough weather the higer freeboard is nice. The higher freeboard does come into play as well for reserve boyancy. I tended to be a bit agreesive with her and ended up with more holes than I should have. But by the same token I was last ship on the water twice. Once a tiger tried to make a corner into the waves and lost. THe hull I have is the old swampworks, now Strke. Good hull and I am very happy with it. Kim
Hi again, guys, I've really appreciated all of your feedback on these two ship classes plus some others; it's been a huge help to me learning about these kits from guys who have built them, battled them, or experimented with them. I'd like to open it up a little bit and ask for opinions on the best class 4 through 6 hulls that are Allied; what are some strengths and weaknesses of say a Tennessee compared to a North Carolina?
Allied 4-6. That's a good one. I'm pretty much cut in the cloth Japanese (Axis if really pushed) but I can through in some thoughts. If you're partial to US Navy then class 4 is a tough one. The South Carolina is quite small and at 28secs also slow in comparison to the majority of allied ships. The Alaska is at the other spectrum, very large and carries only 3 guns on a hull about the same size as an NC. I think those are the only class 4 US ships with hulls available right now. If you're open to Brits, then Tiger or Lion would be at the top of my list. Invincible is up there as well, but is much more a close-in slugger than the Lion. If you like sidemounts she'd be a great boat to get started in. Strasbourg is also a solid ship and being French could go allied or axis. Class 5 is much more open. On the US side you have Arizona, Maryland, and Tennessee class battleships. All are 5.5 units and 26 seconds and have very useful internal space (especially the bulged Tennessee). The brits bring the Iron Duke and QE. Both are very solid ships, QE is a bit larger and yields 25 extra rounds (in fast guns anyway) but the ID is slightly smaller and has a lower freeboard. Class 6 is the American class. You've got the South Dakota and North Carolina classes. Both are very popular and bring triple stern cannons to the fight. They both have dual rudders and skegs. They both turn very well, especially the SoDak. The King George V class is also in here, but only for the Quad sterns. She's very long and has a single rudder but fought like a big cruiser has the potential to be nasty. NC vs. Tennessee. NC is faster and has an extra cannon and turns about the same. However the two ships really fill different roles. The NC is more of an open ocean ship, it does not excell in close in sidemount fests. (for the most part). NCs likely face Nagatos, Bismarcks, Derfflingers, Romas, and Kongos. Tennessee is a slower sidemount ship. The pressence of a haymaker makes her more able to play in sidemount slugging fests. Only having dual sterns takes her away from cruiser style battling. (for the most part) Tennessees likely face Badens, VDTs, Motkes, Fusos, Konigs, Andrea Dorias, Nassaus, and similar ships. It really comes down to what you like and your building skill. A poorly built NC will sink a lot more than a decently build Tennessee and vice versa. Also the larger the ship the more things that need to be looked after. Both an NC or a Tennessee would be fine second ships after building a Brooklyn and battling for a little while.
I like what Brandon said above, and I will add my 2 Yen Best allied 4-unit ship is HMS Invincible, hands down. Reasonable interior room, 2 rudders, 26 seconds is not that big a handicap. Most that I've seen run a sidemount port and stbd, and a single gun ahead or astern. They are very tough little ships and will let you mix it up far more than a Brook. (Not to malign the Brooks which are fine cruisers) A well-built I-boat can take 4 times it's sink points in damage and keep floating. (This could be said of other designs, but you can't deny that the I-boats are tough). The other nice thing about the battlecruisers is that you don't have to be super-cautious about weight, a definate plus when building your first ship.
Agreed with the posts here as far as getting a first boat or other project. I been lifting these monsters around for nearly 18 years and have deadlifted Yamato off the ground and tables and from a sunken state many many times. I have pulled my back on several occasions negotiating my Yamato from the basement weaving through 2 flights of stairs. Trust me not the greatest ships to lift around. Why do I keep doing it? I learned how to manage them using my Legs to lift and I get help when it's available. I keep the models empty mostly when carrying and I do lift weights regularly to keep me strong so that I can lift these beasts. When they fill with water I slowly empty them of water before bringing them in to shore. Launching from a dock is a pain and I usually have to wait a passerby to help me launch. Good to be in area where there are many walkers about. Tactically they are great ships to battle with but you have to learn how to use them effectively otherwise they are nothing but floating Islands that do sink from time to time. They cost a lot more to but when set up correctly and if your in it for the long haul they are great investments if you plan on using them often and not as a dust collector. Check out the photo gallery there is a pic of me lifting YAMATO from the watery grave and if you see the amount of water it pulls up when you lift it you get the idea. Better yet I'LL post a couple of pics.
I saw that picture, Stokamoto; that Yamato is a gorgeous ship. My eventual Iowa (I say eventual because regardless of what ship I build first, an Iowa is on my will-build shortlist) will definitely see as much combat as I can reasonably expose it to. One does not spend $1300 to build and outfit an Iowa only to put it on a shelf or a table as a decoration, lol.
